Your presence touches everything, without doing anything in particular, and ripples out toward many people, including some you will never know. Terrifying and exciting, knowing this makes being more deliberate a change worth cultivating. Open to ways that provoke your perspective about being conscious with each action. Learn to be authentic and generative so you may choose to live values aligned.
Your voice matters more than you recognize and always carries the potential to cause reciprocal prosperity in the world.
Join Janet, Garry and our dear friend, colleague and global leader, Cathy Mott, MCC and CEO for Change Worth Cultivating., as we explore this context for CHOICE, the call to live and lead authentically and sovereign so every choice shapes the world to love your life’s work.
Register here for the Vanguard Series so you never miss an episode!
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com
Your presence touches everything, without doing anything in particular, and ripples out toward many people, including some you will never know. Terrifying and exciting, knowing this makes being more deliberate a change worth cultivating. Open to ways that provoke your perspective about being conscious with each action. Learn to be authentic and generative so you may choose to live values aligned.
Your voice matters more than you recognize and always carries the potential to cause reciprocal prosperity in the world.
Join Janet, Garry and our dear friend, colleague and global leader, Cathy Mott, MCC and CEO for Change Worth Cultivating., as we explore this context for CHOICE, the call to live and lead authentically and sovereign so every choice shapes the world to love your life’s work.
Register here for the Vanguard Series so you never miss an episode!
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com
Welcome everyone. I'm Janet Harvey. And this is the 2022 Vanguard conversation series together. We explore an unearthed pathways for radical change through provocative and courageous conversation that assists all of us to find our way through the liminal space. Our society is in today. Each episode we are joined by an inspirational global visionary leader that we know you'll love and want to engage with and integrate what emerges into your own learning, living, and leading. Before we go into our program, let me unveil the why of our series. We live in unprecedented times that call each of us to choose to disrupt on purpose. Your being here with us tells us that you are awake to the cascading crises in this 2022 world. While some fantasize about someone out there, making our challenges disappear. Your presence here for this 60 minutes says you and we are already catalysts for change, and we're ready to lead together. Please join me in expressing a special thank you for our sponsors. Invite change enterprise solutions and choice magazine, founder and publishing editor. Garry Schleifer, who is my co-host for the series.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Janet. I am so happy to be here as always. This has been a great series. Vanguard means being at the forefront of ideas that are merging. So we may be provocatively disruptive in our thinking. I'm laughing. Cuz we just talked about this as an easy example. Most people put pork chops with apple sauce and think what is apple sauce? If not with pork chops? Well, I wonder what it could mean.<laugh> our conversations focus on our experience of life today rather than a theory, an outcome, a process or a promotion to buy anything. We invite you to transform your process of listening from something to get knowledge about, to listening, to ask differently and be differently in our daily lives to use this time together. And after in our virtual dialogue spaces to engage in these conversations clear of preconceived notions and together let's demonstrate that we are not smarter and better. We are co we let's emphasize the, we are coves of these important conversations. Everyone is invited into an inclusive participatory experience of reflection, learning and motivation to engage in catalyzing change.
Speaker 1:And as a little piece of housekeeping, as you can see, your mics are off right now, we will open them up about midway through. But what we also know is that if you sit on your hands mm-hmm<affirmative> instead of using the chat pod, when you have a comment or a question, you won't hear what the conversation is exploring. So please open the chat window and use it liberally. And we'll weave things in as we go along now picking up from last time when we explored the necessity for each of us to challenge our calcified consciousness with our global leader, Sheri fab, that calcified consciousness is what blocks our societal change. Today. We're gonna move to the world of choice and thinking about which choices to prioritize for the greatest possible contribution to humanity. So here's the first key idea we wanna seed this with when you're asked a question, how would you describe the relationship you have with yourself? Notice what seems to surface many people struggle answering this question. They say, well, gosh, it's complicated or I'm not sure, or I've never thought about it. And yet emotional and mental wellbeing requires that we explore the complexity of relationship with ourself beyond the binary, right? Wrong, good, bad to give a self space for silence and introspection without being judgemental or evaluative
Speaker 2:As a creator and publisher of choice, the magazine of professional coaching shameless self-promotion recent issue.<laugh> um, we chose, you know, I I'm reflecting and today isn't a really special experience for me. I know they all are. And uh, not only because Cathy's in the wings waiting to speak and share her wisdom, but, um, because we chose this name choice because 20 years ago I was just completing my or beginning coach training. And this was the most powerful impact that I saw of coaching. And so two years after my training was over, I noticed there was no magazine and this is the name that I chose and, um, came up with for, for the magazine. And here we are with our choice today. Um, I am reflecting too that we've, it's been over 20 years since I've been publishing choice. And I remember that we started by writing a wave that coaching stimulated towards the power of choice in life. A little more reflection of, of what Janet was just saying. And over time we've generated, uh, waves of thought methods, skills, and perspective about the power to continuously choose learning and growth. Now we envision, now we're talking about the future. So we're bringing what Janet said about ours personally, combining it with what's the future gonna be like and connecting it back to some of our other calls. It's how we envision the future is being the wave. What if we are the wave? And that means a challenge of evolution from one hero to, as Sharif said in our previous call to 8 billion heroes. What if it's not just one leader that's exalted and revered? What if it's 8 billion liters, all of us fulfilling a shared purpose for a thriving humanity that just jazzes me.
Speaker 1:<laugh> a, and of course, Garry, what you're speaking to is choice is a good idea until we have to talk to our bodies and our hearts and to connect with the wholeness of who we are to courageously step forward to something. Right? And so there's a couple of really key questions. Do we pay attention to what we're feeling? And even if we do pay attention, are we consciously choosing how we're being with it and what we're going to do with those feelings? Or do we say, oh, feelings, push those over there.<laugh><laugh> our guest today, Cathy Mott, dear friend, um, colleague and someone who I got to know more deeply during the 2020 B choose cause conference is with us today. Welcome Cathy. Thank
Speaker 3:You.
Speaker 1:And of course you all have read her resume I'm sure. And if not, you'll find her full bio, but I wanna say a couple of things in particular, Cathy has many hats that she wears. And, um, the one that I hold most dear is her ability to perceive the heart of another human being. You walk in the world with deep compassion and an understanding of the experience people are going through. And I think much because of your own life experience and how palpably you not only can touch it and articulate it, but you walk it, it radiates through you. So whether it be in coach or speaker or author of your new book, which we're gonna talk a little bit about or facilitator or, uh, change agents, gosh, I don't know. The list is way too long. Your ability to bring us into the space of emotional intelligence is the best I've ever had the privilege to be with. So welcome. Um, we're so glad you're here and looking forward to the conversation together.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I am happy to be here. You know, this is my passion, emotional intelligence. I can't say enough about it. And I also can't say enough about the need to provide, um, individuals opportunity to expand their vocation, uh, their vocabulary around emotions. Yeah, it's so funny. My business began back in 2014 when my mom passed and I couldn't find anybody that would hold the space for me to talk about grieving and how much I missed her. They would always automatically jump to, oh, you'll see her again. Oh, you still have your dad not willing to open that space. And so that CWC became coffee with Cathy where a group of 25 women met every six weeks over the course of two years to talk about real life issues and hold the space for us to share the emotional trauma that some of us were experiencing the grief, the difficulties in life and to support one another. That's how all of this began.
Speaker 2:Mm, wow. That's brilliant. You know, Cathy, I, I'm thinking of my mom who has lived without her life partner for three and a half years, and they'd known and been together for 67 and that she was looking for that kind of resource. And I would've loved to be able to offer that to her now that she knows how to use zoom.<laugh> at, at 88, she started now she's 89 and tells me when it's working or not<laugh>. Um, but you know, it, it, it, that's a, a good segue into this first question that we wanna, uh, have with you. And that is in terms of mental health and wellness. What are you exploring about the peop the reason people avoid the number one source of choice, listening to themselves and connecting their full to their full experience of their lives. Mm-hmm
Speaker 3:<affirmative> thank you for that question. I think because people have not met themselves face to face, or haven't developed a relationship with themselves, and it's so interesting. I did a, um, a speech in, uh, east Africa last week, 1:15 AM. It was via zoom, 77 students. And I asked them to describe the relationship with their best friend and they populated support of love and kind. They're awesome. Always there they're like a brother to me, like a sister. And then I ask, how would you describe the relationship you have with yourself? Crickets for moments<laugh>
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:And again, I share this is a place of no judgment, but crickets, and then it's complicated. It's fearful. It's the unknown, it's distant, it's destructive, it's abusive. Mm-hmm<affirmative>. So not only, um, is it that people don't have a healthy relationship with themselves. Sometimes the relationship they have with themselves is abusive, right. And that, you know, hurts my heart. And so one of the things that I love doing, I, I say my tagline sometimes is I specialize in introducing people to themselves, and I create this space for people to fall in love with themselves, and then thrive and harness their personal power and grow, and it can be done. It really can be done.
Speaker 2:Wow. That, you know, what pops to mind is I was in I'm in a, an invite change course. It was just on this morning and it about artful acknowledgement. And it sounds like you, as Janet introduced you as knowing another's heart, I'm guessing you have the artful acknowledgement gene
Speaker 1:<laugh>
Speaker 2:In your life.
Speaker 3:I, I do. I live with an open heart. Um, the gifts and the blessings that come from an open heart is greater than any fear of being harmed. Cause on the rare occasions that I've been harmed from the open heart, it's always had the ability to heal. And so I'm also an empath. I can literally feel what people feel and, um, really learning how to set boundaries and use it as a superpower mm-hmm<affirmative> has been, um, so amazing, especially in the coaching space. I love providing the space for people to discover themselves, holding up that mirror, giving them permission, making them feel safe. And a lot of times what I've learned is so many individuals, whether in the coaching space or not, and hopefully not so much in the coaching space, they feel this innate desire to fix people's problems. And so an innate desire to say just the right thing. And we as coaches know the greatest gift and the value is in the listening, the listening and being fully present with individuals. But that takes place when you've had an opportunity to listen to yourself, when you are comfortable and your needs are met, then you automatically can step into that place and listen. But if you're not comfortable, you're thinking, oh, what do I say? What do I do? Am I doing the right thing? Oh, remember when my mother died. I remember what I felt like everybody said the wrong thing. What am I supposed to do? But in that space of mental health and wellbeing in that space of having a healthy relationship with yourself, you can tell yourself internally, Cathy, I'm gonna put you aside right now. I'll come back to you and then focus on the person in front of you. It's such a beautiful gift to give to others.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Mm-hmm
Speaker 1:<affirmative> wow. So listening to self sounds so simple, but I think we spend so much of lives listening to other people to figure out how to get along to belong. Of course, that's a human need, connection and belonging or in our DNA. And I, as I was listening, Cathy, I was thinking about one of our other global leaders. I think you've met Elra Elridge Jackson II, who has the co-founder of inside circle. So they're working with incarcerated young incarcerated men, sometimes older incarcerated men to help them come back home to themselves would be my language, but fall in love with themselves again. And he always says hurt. People, hurt people. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and it strikes me that part of what you're talking about is that the internal relationship a hurt person hurts themselves. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and you know, learning how to break through that. What's the choice that gets presented. That allows someone to say that was then this is now I can be in different.
Speaker 3:Oh my goodness. This, um, question is in my heart resonating. So I'm I'm about to go real V on you guys. Real vulnerable. Are you ready?
Speaker 1:Ready? Ready?
Speaker 3:<laugh> are you ready? Okay. So you guys know recently I lost my dad. He was 90. Um, he lived eight years after my mom passed. They were married for 64 years together for 70 I'm the baby of six. So just loved by my parents that they gave me a lot of confidence. Always made me feel so special. Like if I would come over to the house and they were on the phone, they would say, I gotta go Cathy's here. Mm-hmm<affirmative> so real confidence builders. Right? Even in my fifties, I gotta go Cathy's here. So now I don't have parents. And my daughter is newly engaged in getting to know her future mother-in-law. Mm. And I have to share with you, I have felt some feelings of insecurity. Will I be replaced? Will she like her better than me? My parents were hero. That wouldn't happen. And so I sit with that emotion and I go, Ugh, it's not easy to sit with, but after I sit with it, I say, what do you wanna do with it? Mm. Say, because if you act out, it's gonna push it further away, push her further away. What do you wanna do with it? So the first thing I do is validate it because you have a right to feel that way, because the time she used to spend with you is now shared with her. And then I say, well, what do you wanna do to manage the relationship? And I began to set special times and moments that she and I could spend together. And now she calls me on her own two days a week on her drive to work. But the other thing that I take away from experiencing this emotional insecurity, I thought to myself, how often do others feel this way? Right. And what must it be like for them? And how can I create the space for them to be able to express themselves, validate themselves, harness their personal power, a place of no judgment and learn from the emotion. That's the place I've been going. And it's been a, a vicious circle about having the emotion, sitting with it, validating what do I wanna do with it? What do I learn from it? But I have to tell you, I haven't felt insecurity like I'm experiencing now since I was a little girl. Yeah. And it's like, Ugh, it's there. I'm still in control of it because I can articulate it and make a choice as to what I wanna do with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Such an important piece. Right? So the, the metaphor of the snake and the transformation that occurs when they shed their skin and those first moments when it's, so the skin is so raw and tender everything hearts, they can't move<laugh> and they purposely do it. They move immediately from the sun into the shade. So there's, there's something metaphorically about slowing down. And I, and I wonder in, in the world today that is full of so much intensity, so many different things coming at us. What's the way you, when you're creating that environment, what, what are you suggesting to people to help them turn down the noise a little bit. So they can hear that they're having a feeling, let alone decide what to do about it.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm<affirmative> absolutely great question. So the world has made it chic to be very busy when people say, oh my goodness, I can't make it today. I gotta go here. I gotta go here. I gotta go here. I'm so busy. I gotta do this. I gotta do this. And some people are wishing, oh, I wish I could do that. Make choices. So look at your value system. What's your value system. And the choices you make that align with your value system will give you the most reward. That's how you manage, how much time you have in the day and use that time, um, to fulfill your values and your mission, the quiet time. And it can be different for everyone. But my quiet time, I do it in the morning before I start my day. And most often, especially in the summertime, I'm sitting in nature. I'm very still, I'm very quiet and I'm listening. And I can remember just, uh, a couple days ago. Um, I know my heart has literally felt like it's been cracked since my dad passed. Mm-hmm<affirmative> I read, read a passage, meditated, set a prayer. And I felt like someone had started the first stitch at the bottom of my heart to, and so to be in a space that I've been, you know, meditating like this for 22 years to be in the space where I can feel and articulate what's going on internally is such a gift because sometimes with grief, you don't know if it will ever end, right. And to be in the space to feel like it's being sewn together. Minded just a little bit, gives me so much hope. Um, it empowers me and a space that I'm in now is my parents gave me and my siblings this great life. How do I pay it forward? Mm-hmm<affirmative> how do I pay it forward? But I can't entertain that thought if my heart is always cracked and I'm bleeding<laugh>. But now that I feel that sense of mending, I wanna pay it forward. And the greater the mending is I feel the greater, the capacity will be for me to pay it forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But it really is slowing down and spending time with yourself and telling yourself, I really do love you. And I'm gonna take care of you and I'm gonna do the thing same for my family and for my friends. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow. You know, it's it it's, it just occurs to me that great things happen in the silence. Oh, hold on. That's somebody's book.<laugh> no, seriously, like we were gonna talk about this, but you segued right into it with us. Why? You know, just listen and your reflection of sitting back and listening and you know, and then I mentioned earlier, my mother and she was going through what you've I get the sense she's going through what you're going through with your dad. And I thank you for that. Um, that metaphor of stitching the heart, because I've seen what she's done to help stitch her heart. And she also acknowledges her, like you, her own evolution beyond that partnership of 67 years. Mm-hmm<affirmative> right. And I, I, you know, I love how you speak about, uh, how to expand your emotional vocabulary. And you obviously walk your talk and I absolutely love that you accept the power of choice because that's my tagline. No, you always have the power of choice and you know, and that, it, it, it nurtures your mental and emotional wellbeing. And you've, you know, you've implied this, applied this in your circles. And by the way, I hear another circle coming. I don't know why, but
Speaker 3:<laugh> a healing circle. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Ah, you think, you think like, yeah, well, no, the, the, uh, no, the am I gonna be left out circle?<laugh><laugh>
Speaker 3:No, this is inclusive. This
Speaker 2:Is, I know, I know we're going with the positive part.
Speaker 3:Yes. I have had the wonderful privilege of using this book. Just listen. Great things happen in the silence. It's an emotional intelligence workbook. So a lot of books have been written on emotional intelligence that tell you what it is, but this book allows you to actually do the work on 30 different emotions. So I write about 30 different emotions and I walk through the four stages of emotional intelligence for each emotion self-awareness self-management awareness of others, and then manage the, managing the social setting. And then at the end of each emotion, I asked the question, if I had to do it all over again, what would I do differently? And the reader gets to answer that question. And then what was the lesson learned from this emotion? And so it's a 30 day workbook. So I've been using it in different organizations in healthcare to help caregivers process through working through and living through a pandemic one organization I'm working with in just one department. This team experienced 1700 deaths over the wow one department, 1700 deaths. And the main emotion that a lot of caregivers, a lot of nurses feel is guilt. They always feel like, what could I have done differently? I could have done more. Why didn't I do this? And so when they're talking to their fellow nurses, the fellow nurse will say, you did a great job. You did all that you could. But when we open the space for people to explore and take a coach-like approach, we know when we're coaching guilt, they in their mind and, uh, violated their moral compass. And so we will open that up for them to discuss what's that like for you, what moral compass or value do you feel like you've violated? And through a series of questions, they get to the point where I really did do my best, given the circumstances that we were in, I really did do my best, but when day to day conversations and people say, don't feel that way, that doesn't give the individual an opportunity to hear themselves talk about it, or to metabolize that emotion and even experience the value of the emotion.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Mm-hmm,<affirmative> exactly. We've. So, um, you know, you used the phrase, no judgment, and I've been exploring Kathy a little bit, the difference between exercising judgment, which is discernment and critical thinking as opposed to being judgemental. So whether it's the healthcare workers, or I spent some time with some coaches in Ukraine, uh, last month, and we were talking about, what does it take to help the population heal from the massive deaths and trauma of the war? And I, and you know, I took a page out of your book, be with it. Yeah. Right. It must be fine to feel the depth of despair and loss and not to personalize it. Right. Being judgemental to self that I somehow am part causer agent and I therefore should feel guilty. Mm-hmm<affirmative>
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right. There's a, there's a rewiring necessary. And I can hear in the moments of silence and the breath that there's a place to say. Yeah. Feel the grief, feel the loss it's real. And it's not all of who you are
Speaker 3:And it won't kill you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.<laugh> exactly.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:The reason
Speaker 3:I say that I, I can distinguish between when I lost my mom, I literally felt like an elephant was standing on my chest.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's how heavy it was. When I lost my dad, my heart was broken and cracked. There is a different feeling between those two mm-hmm<affirmative> and knowing that I eventually healed from the elephant standing on my chest. I know that the crack will mend, but had I not spent time with it, be able to articulate it, put a visual with it. I would be in this place of wonder or quandary as to the brokenness or the crack in my heart. So emotions won't kill you. They're valuable. They provide a message. They just want you to listen. And then you're in control. You have the power, wait for it, wait for it, Garrett. You have the power to
Speaker 1:Make a
Speaker 2:Yay. Yeah, definitely. You know, and I can't help, but reflect back on what you said earlier, that it's about keeping an open heart. So you wouldn't have these experiences. You also wouldn't have these opportunities and you wouldn't have these openings for choice. Had you had a closed heart? I actually believe that a closed heart can kill. Cuz I believe that people who do hold in their emotions are more likely to have physical manifestations of illness than those that are open. Uh, you know, do, as you said in your book, listen, great things happen in the silence. Be silent. What Janet said, breathe with it, acknowledge it, share it, IIT an image about it. All these things are. So I valuable I'm
Speaker 3:That's so true. That's so true. Um, humans, we have this desire and need to be loved. We do. And we can all talk about the experience of the babies who weren't hugged. And the one baby on the end, the housekeeper came in and hugged this baby every day and sang to her. And that baby was the only one that survived. We have a need for love. We grow. We thrive when we love and feel loved mm-hmm<affirmative>. When we walk around with a heart that's closed off, it limits her ability to grow, to develop and to experience life. And so when our heart is closed off, we're limiting our ability to grow leaders whose hearts are closed. They find it difficult to connect with their direct reports or to connect with their teams or to move a team influence, inspire a team. So a lot of people have been hurt and have closed their heart, but I can share, there is an opportunity to begin the healing process and move towards mending and sharing our hearts with others.
Speaker 2:So I can't, I'm sitting here chuckling because you reminded me of when I started hugging my dad. So my dad was you, you never saw obvious dis what do you call'em public displays of affection between my mom and my dad. In fact, there was one time when I was in Europe, when I was an adult with traveling with my parents and my partner at the time. And I said to him, it's like, um, who are those people ahead of us? Cause they're holding hands. That's not my parents. And it was around that same time that I started to hug my dad. Goodbye. And when you say closed heart, I I'm just wondering was his life experience of being in Germany during the war, as a child and, and his upbringing, his father being killed a stepfather the whole bit. If he had a closed heart and I inadvertently intruded and it was so funny too, you guys, it was like, so I, you know, have you ever hugged a board?<laugh> so that was what it was like hugging my dad. Right. And I would do it every time we parted company and it came to a point where eventually he wouldn't let me out the door until I hugged him. I was like, yes, score one for the team.
Speaker 3:<laugh> we need it. We asked,
Speaker 2:Oh, I felt so sorry for my mother doing COVID being locked up and not having a hug because I felt it was my joy to visit her and give her at least three hugs. That's my rule. Everyone needs at least three hugs a day. That'll crack any heart.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Absolutely. I, um, worked in healthcare and I led a huge culture change initiative where we would teach everyone in the hospital, how to shift from patient care to patient experience. And part of that talked about skin on skin contact. Like if you have elderly patients that come in, you know, they live alone when you're with them, be sure to give them that skin on skin contact, just asking them, how are you today? How are you feeling? There are medical benefits to people having that skin on skin contact. I believe we're all here in service to one another. I really do believe that. And people will tell me, Cathy, you give the best hugs. And I always say hugs are free even in the tough economy.
Speaker 2:<laugh>
Speaker 3:But it, I benefit from it just as much as they do mm-hmm
Speaker 2:<affirmative>
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And you're right. There's a way to give a hug. And I actually, coaches were all known for this. Okay. It's like, it's a hug Fest. I was taught by a coach. Not only is put, but switch, cuz I tend to go to the opposite side of where the heart is, connect heart to heart and hold and breathe past that first awkward moment of a hug into a deep breath.
Speaker 1:That's
Speaker 2:Right. And then it's just like no words and no padding. You will get in such trouble with me if you pat my back.
Speaker 3:<laugh>
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Very parental<laugh>.
Speaker 2:So yeah, no,
Speaker 1:But I wanna go back to something. I think I heard Cathy suggest you didn't say this directly, so I wanna check it out. Keep going the first time you work with someone who has a closed heart. So Garry, maybe even your story with your dad doesn't mean you're going to get met. This is true with clients too, right? That, uh, in any walk of life, the first time they experience someone with an open heart, it can be a bit overwhelming. Yes. But keep going, keep showing up. Don't turn your light down. Don't turn your emanation. Your radiance down. Yeah. Keep showing up. Keep modeling, right?
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Absolutely. Because not everyone. I recognize not everyone has an open heart. And so I alter my approach. I'm not as, um, forward moving with the person who may be guarded because it's not all about me. It is about that other person. So, you know, emotional intelligence is all about, um, what's going on with the other person too, and then managing the social setting. So I've worked with clients who initially were closed off or in, uh, facilitating. I I've, uh, trained over 10,000 people. So have been in situations where people did not wanna participate or closed off. Um, I'll never forget. I did this three day training, um, for an organization and there was one woman in the class who was quiet. Um, and on her cell phone, she checked everything I said on Google. Um, she was the C style on the disc. And so afterwards she came up to me and said, thank you so much. This was the best training I've ever attended. I wouldn't have known that by her body language. Right. Or by her interaction. And so every time I'm picking up on someone that's maybe not engaged or a little standoffish, I go back to this individual because we can read about the different styles, but I'll never forget this woman because she came up to me and said, this was the best trainee I'd ever received. And I had no idea she was even enjoying the trainee.
Speaker 1:<laugh>
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I do walk differently and um, hold the space differently for people that I can feel are closed off.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I would like to let everybody know you're you're welcome. We're gonna turn the microphones open now and you're welcome to come on video. If you're comfortable with that, knowing that we're recording, these are all posted to the beaches cause site for Vanguard conversation. Um, you'd be more than welcome to come join us. Uh, there might be a question you wanna pose to Cathy. Cathy, you might have a question for them. I, I did wanna broaden the context a little bit. I put a book reference in the chat for everyone. Um, that I've, that I'm about halfway through and thoroughly enjoying called commanding hope. And you used the word hope earlier. And I think sometimes people hold hope as a, maybe a wishful thinking, uh, something that might have a little naivete, but I think it's actually quite centered and grounded that that hope is the manifestation of our power of choice. That, that we, we can see the possibility and we put ourselves into motion. And um, I, I, I think Thomas humer Dixon's work here is quite wonderful. And I'm hearing you describe some of the principles in the work you're doing in the healthcare space. We have this in our country right now. Like how do we, how do we command hope with someone who we think has such a huge values conflict with us and restore our humanity. I wonder how you would navigate that with some of the work you've been doing.
Speaker 3:Hmm. I would say the one thing about being a coach is you don't have to have all the answers. And yet when you step into the space, when I put on my coaching hat, I can sit in the chair with confidence because I don't have to have all the answers. So when I am facilitating a healing circle and I sense, or maybe have been given the backdrop that the caregivers don't feel supported by the leader, or don't feel supported by the organization. And they feel like this is just the flavor of the month. I sit in the space and I give them an opportunity to start first. I said, this will be a healing circle. I'm here for you. Tell me, where would you like to go first?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Beautiful. That's beautiful ownership. Empowerment. Normalization.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Hey Norma. Good to see you. Welcome back. Do you have
Speaker 4:Hi? No, no, I, I was sorry. I'm late. I was, um, I got called into another call, so
Speaker 1:No worries. We're glad you're here. You'll have fun listening to the, to the first part of the series. Welcome back.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
Speaker 1:So Cathy, what's stirring, we've, we've covered a lot of territory from the whole world to your personal life and a whole bunch in between.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I I'm noticing some of the comments in the chat box that which are rich and one person said, I didn't know that you could have an abusive relationship with yourself, which I think is powerful. And so when we think about, um, spending time with an abusive person, we wanna limit that time. Right? Mm-hmm<affirmative> so if the relationship with one self is abusive, that would make sense that a person wouldn't want to spend time with themselves. But the first thing is now you have the awareness, you have the awareness, the comment said, I didn't know that you could have an abusive relationship. Now the next question is I have the awareness. What do I wanna do with this relationship? Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so a lot of times when the relationship is abusive, there's a lot of negative. Self-talk I often use the example. We'll have a girlfriend who makes a mistake and they'll come bummed down. I made a mistake and we'll say, oh my goodness. That's okay. We'll fix it. The girlfriend will say, I'm so stupid. No, you're not, you're smart. We're gonna
Speaker 1:Fix it.
Speaker 3:But when we ourselves make a mistake internally, I'm so stupid. How could I do that? I keep doing the thing and we beat ourselves up. Well, now that we have an awareness that that kind of talk internally, beats us up. The next time that happens, we can say, Hey, I'm working on improving this relationship with myself. I have a choice. So recognizing we always have a choice, but it's being able to name it, articulate it and ask the question. What do I wanna do with this?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So thank you for that, for the individual who wrote about that, uh, relationship. And then the other thing that I thought, um, in, in Jan, you said this don't turn your light down. This is powerful and inspiring. It absolutely is. I feel like I have a, a, a big personality and I tell people that I meet, um, I feel like I'm the mildest of my siblings.
Speaker 1:<laugh><laugh>
Speaker 3:I really do. And I jokingly say, my parents I'm the baby of six. They stopped when they got it. Right.<laugh> oh, but
Speaker 1:Very modest, very modest.
Speaker 3:But the thing about not di your light, when we think about the time period that we're living through, we need all the light that we can get. So it isn't that I step into a space and draw attention to myself. It is that I step into a space and I move intentionally to find someone who needs a little bit of life or who needs a safe space to share or who needs to talk. And so turning the life down, um, I try not to do that because I feel like I've been given a gift and I wanna use it in service to others and that in itself.
Speaker 1:So now I think you're speaking a little bit about intent mm-hmm<affirmative> and how do we, how do we partner internally for an intention to create experience? Hmm. Right. What's the, what's the quality of emotion. What's the quality of my body? What is the presence that I'll bring so that, uh, there is a bridge for relationship? Absolutely. That's a very purposeful choice. Yes. Mm-hmm,
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm<affirmative> and a lot of times, you know, um, some of my clients, you know, I'll ask them the question. When you attend this meeting, what role do you wanna play? Or when you attend this event, what role do you wanna play? We, you have a title within the organization, but what role do you wanna play? I'm very intentional, whatever meeting I dial into or attend. I know what role I want to play. So I show up with intentionality and I play that role. So again, giving myself power of choice. I can't say it enough being very intentional. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, I was thinking about, uh, use the word role. And, and I often hear executives say, I want so much to be known and to know my team on a more personal level, but they're not in the office and I'm not at their homes and we're not yet in a place where we can meet together. How do I do this in the virtual space? And I suspect you've had a bit of, um, experience with this and the way that you've been doing the healing circles, what's different in your mind about giving people the choice to reveal themselves in this environment, virtual, as opposed to physical.
Speaker 3:Ooh, I love that question.<laugh> so, um, I have been facilitating a training, five behaviors of a cohesive team now in person that would be an eight hour training, but because we're virtual, I'd break it up into two hours over the course of four months. The nice part about it is there is a lot of sharing along the way. And when I tell you the level and the depth that men have been able to share themselves amongst the group is absolutely amazing. So much so that I also wanna create, um, I won't call it a, a healing circle. I've come up with the title of coffee and courage. Mm-hmm<affirmative> I wanna create a space for men to be able to share their feelings, because the depth of the conversation that I have been hearing over the last few months. So I believe for those leaders to connect it all starts with vulnerability. Yeah. Um, when you're vulnerable, when you openly share yourself, you give permission for other people to share themselves. And I always ask the question for leaders. Are you leading with your title or are you leading with influence? So what are some ways you can in the virtual space diminish the title because that's what people in general are afraid of or intimidated by. So in the virtual space, how can you diminish the title and allow people to see more of who you are as a person outside of the title?
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm<affirmative>
Speaker 3:Yeah. Mm-hmm<affirmative>
Speaker 1:Yeah. I'm, I'm remembering Cathy, a team we worked with not too long ago where the, the team was, had been very high performing and they were kind of hit in a rough spot. They just were floured on all cylinders. And so when we invited them to answer the questions like you're talking about, you know, what's brought you here and what keeps you here. Uh, what they realized was that they were missing their leader. And when we talked to the leader, what he said was, I didn't wanna get in their way. So in this invisible space, they both made up a reason why not to be vulnerable and in communication with each other. Wow. And the leader didn't believe us.<laugh>.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It very interesting. So, so then we had them all together. Right. And, uh, we let the team go first. And the leader was in tears. By the time the last person had spoken about how important he had been to them and what the consequence was of pulling back and, um, just tremendous healing that happened as a result of that. Wow. And I think, um, it goes to your, to your point about not making assumptions, can't judge a book by its cover. Mm-hmm<affirmative> will we always choose to invite someone to speak? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right. Absolutely. And, and what's so interesting. I find with leaders, you know, I, I will always ask them when you walk into a room, what do people see first?
Speaker 1:<laugh>
Speaker 3:That's good. What do they see first? And what are they responding to? Mm-hmm
Speaker 1:<affirmative>
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm<affirmative> and he goes, well, or she goes, well, they see me.<laugh> I go? And what else do they see? Mm-hmm<affirmative> what else do they respond to? And ultimately we get to the title. So, because a lot of times when, um, people have a big quote unquote title, a lot of times they feel like, well, I'm just me. And why do people attach all of this to me? I'm just me. Yeah. Well, once you have the awareness, there are things you can mitigate to make people feel safe. Yeah. To connect with individuals. Yeah. You gotta recognize what comes with that title, whether it's you or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And you know, would be helpful for them. I would imagine for them to think back when they weren't that title and what they made that title mean to themselves.
Speaker 3:Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. One leader said, I think she gave such a great analogy on this. Dr. Flowers is her name. Uh, we were facilitating a diversity equity and inclusion training, and she talked about how people respond to authority. And she said, think about driving down the highway, you're feeling comfortable, maybe listening to your music, you're in the groove and you're going about 10 miles an hour over the speed limit. And you see a police car, what happens
Speaker 2:<laugh> wow. Right.
Speaker 3:You see, I know. And you see, oh, they see me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh my bus. That's
Speaker 3:How, yeah. That's how we respond to authority in that situation. So for leaders, something similar happens when they walk into a room mm-hmm<affirmative> and what can you do to make people feel comfortable, to make them see you as a safe space where they can be their authentic selves?
Speaker 1:Well, so the noticing of one's own self identity in another place where coaches are so useful by drawing that out, how do you see yourself? What is, what is the way you see yourself in the eyes of others? Um, you know, your workbook has the four sections, which I think is brilliant, other awareness. And, and I wonder, what do you see as the most common obstacles for leaders to expand their lens of perceiving to incorporate the influence? They have
Speaker 3:Fear.
Speaker 1:<laugh>
Speaker 2:<laugh> not funny. Everybody thinks the leader is fearless. And then what does, if leader have fear? Okay.
Speaker 3:And, and I share this, the number one emotion I coach for it. I'm sure most coaches too is fear. Yeah. And a lot of times it seems like the further up you go in the organization, the greater level of fear, and there is a lot of loneliness.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm
Speaker 3:<affirmative> yeah. A lot of loneliness in that C-suite space. So I think when we're fearful, it's hard for us to function at an optimal level. And so if leaders could manage or navigate through that space of fear, get beyond that fear explored with the coach so that you can remove that barrier. Because as long as a person is fearful, they're in pursuit of their own safety. So I can't make you safe if I'm afraid, but if I step into a space and I'm secure, God, I wanna make you secure mm-hmm<affirmative>. So it's being secure, comfortable in their skin, living a value based life, knowing who they are, emotional intelligence, all that good stuff.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm<affirmative> oh, I remember the isolation part. I ran a, a multimillion dollar, third party logistics company back in the last century. I'm old. Um, and, and I, I truly it's like, I, I didn't feel I could turn to anyone in my organization because I didn't want them to think they had a leader that, you know, that I, that I didn't wanna share my fears or my questions or concerns with these people who saw me as their quote unquote leader, right. The person that's leading. Right. And conversely though, I had another experience where I had bought a fancy car, but I also bought a, not so fancy car. And I always drove the not so fancy car to work. And a few of the people on my team knew I had the fancy car and they said, would you please bring the fancy car to work? And that you can put fear or success in the same conversation. Your success becomes our success. When we see you driving a fancy car, we know we're doing well, because I always operated from fairness, equity, and generosity. So we already had sort of those things recovered as far as profit sharing and things like that. But they said, you know, in a sense, be vulnerable to your success. Mm. Which was like, okay,
Speaker 3:Wow. And they felt comfortable enough to give you the feedback.
Speaker 2:Yeah. True. That, and then
Speaker 3:That's a win
Speaker 2:<laugh>. And the funniest part, they came out to see the car and something didn't work. And it had these, uh, windshield wiper cleaners, like a, you know, you spray your windshield screen, but the windshield wiper has it. And the hose broke and two or three of them got nailed when I<laugh> turned the wiper on with the spray. Uh, so you see, and there we go, open heart. We had humor. We can reflect Bo back on that story. You know, it was at, I, I get the breakdowns. I had, I also get the closed heart up, uh, times I had. But I also, now in this conversation, realizing that there were a lot of times when I had open heart and I didn't know it. Right. Like, cuz this was the nineties. I don't know if anybody knew that stuff.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm<affirmative> right. Yeah. And now people are, uh, more educated around living with an open heart. I see Lee had a comment here in the chat box. She says, it's lonely at the top. Who can I share with mm-hmm<affirmative> this is why it's so important for these leaders to partner with a coach to be that sounding board and to partner. It's so true. Um, I have had a couple of clients, female clients. And when I, um, go on zoom and they pop in, they'll say to me, Hey girlfriend. And I say to myself, uh, you don't have any friends
Speaker 2:<laugh>
Speaker 3:As we, it it's true because they don't have time for friends. They don't have time. They spend 10, 12 hours a day. They go home, they travel and we all know what the coaching conversation is. Like. It's like no other conversation we have. Mm-hmm<affirmative> you feel a connection to that coach because it's an open heart conversation. And so yes, I love being that partner, helping them grow and develop, helping them transform. It is one of the most beautiful things outside the birth of my grandchildren.
Speaker 2:<laugh> oh,
Speaker 3:That I've had the privilege to be a part of
Speaker 2:<laugh>. Oh, that's wonderful. Well, uh, we're coming to the end of our time today. I wanted, uh, to give you the opportunity to tell us a bit more about, uh, your, I see that, uh, it, the link has been posted and, uh, I think, uh, Lynn has said that there's only a few lefted on Amazon, but tell us a little bit more about the book. I'm sure they'll stock the shelves at Amazon with more
Speaker 3:They'll tell me, send more books. Um, it absolutely is. Um, it's been more than I ever thought it would be. Like when I first wrote this book, my goal was to sell 500 copies and put it on Amazon, but now to see organizations using it, um, I just secured a, a contract with, uh, Macomb county school district. They'll be teaching a hundred of their leaders of emotional intelligence and in healthcare that I know right in healthcare learning circles in automotive learning circles,<laugh> typically the number of emotions. Those in automotive can name are about four. So if you, yeah,<laugh>, if you really want to expand your vocabulary, this is a must read. And what I hear most people do, they read the book through first cuz they can't put it down and then they go back and do the activities. And a healthy, emotional vocabulary is anywhere from 30 to 40 words. And there are over 4,000 emotions that a human can experience. So have a crack at this workbook. It's a journey. Um, please take the journey and if you know anyone that's interested in hosting a healing circle, I'd love to be a part of that. And I have one visual that I'd like to share.
Speaker 1:Sure. So,
Speaker 3:Okay. So this is my visual. When we, can you see this glass here? Yes. When we spend time with ourselves and we engage in self care healthcare, it's like continually on a regular basis pouring into ourselves. So I have a routine prayer, journaling, Bible, reading, meditation exercise. I do this every day so that when I interact with the public, I'm pouring out and because I set boundaries, I have choice. I still leave some for my husband.
Speaker 1:<laugh><laugh>
Speaker 3:I leave some for help.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But you know that statement, there's more happiness in giving and receiving that's when you have something to give, when you invest in the relationship you have with yourself. Yeah. You invest in giving to yourself and you likewise, important to others. Thank you so much for having me today.
Speaker 2:Wow. It's been an absolute joy and pleasure to have you and thank you for leaving us with that image as well. That's so cool.
Speaker 3:My pleasure
Speaker 1:And the big inquiry question for all of you to be with, we'll see you on social media until we're together. Again is what's been stirred up for you today in this discussion about choice that you will allow to influence your worldview and your mindset as you navigate your life every day. Moving forward. I know for me, Cathy, this notion of, um, you know, you can't give to others. If you're not allowing yourself to receive the giving, you give yourself in a, in a joyous, open heart and how important that is today with so much challenge in the world.<laugh> yeah. And it's always a choice. Thank you so much for joining us. And those of you that are new to us be choose tas.com. If you haven't joined the community yet, please do that. So you have access to the full series and we'll see you for, uh, Civility with Dr. Lawrence Hillman, uh, in September. Yeah. That's beautiful. Thanks so much, Cathy. Thank you everyone for joining us. Thank you.
Speaker 3:All right. Have a thank you so much, Kathy. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You beautiful. My pleasure. Thank.