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choice Magazine
choice Magazine
Episode #89 ~ Courageous Conversations in Coaching with guest, Dora Hegedus
Embark on an explorative journey with Garry Schleifer and the exceptional Dora Hegedus, as we traverse the lesser-discussed realms of coaching. Dora, an award-winning coach and recipient of the ICF President's Award, illuminates the dark corners where the 'unspeakables' linger, those challenging topics that can significantly influence coaching results. Our conversation delves into her thought-provoking article, "Unspeakables: The Hidden Trap Between Us," offering powerful insights and invaluable coaching tips to courageously confront these issues for impactful and lasting change.
Prepare to be captivated as we discuss the sensitive nature of client secrets and the introspection required by coaches to maintain a non-judgmental stance. Learn how self-awareness and honesty are pivotal in dealing with personal biases that may surface, and discover strategies to address and process these challenges. The dialogue deepens as we examine the intricate power dynamics and the essence of trust within the coach-client relationship, rounding off with reflections on intuition's vital role in coaching. This episode promises to leave you enlightened and equipped to approach the unsaid with confidence and clarity.
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Find the full article here: https://bit.ly/DHegedus
Learn more about Dóra Hegedűs here.
Connect with Dóra on Facebook and Instagram
Dora is excited to offer an exclusive opportunity: a complimentary 20-minute coaching session for the first 10 applicants, on a first-come, first-served basis. To maximize your experience with an ICF Master Coach, please come prepared with a specific question. This is your chance to make the most out of your time with Dora. Secure your spot now by booking here.”
Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/
In this episode, I talk with Dóra Hegedűs about her article published in our March 2024 issue.
Welcome to the choice Magazine podcast, Beyond the Page. choice, the magazine of professional coaching, is your go-to source for expert insights and in-depth features from the world of professional coaching. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer, and I'm thrilled to have you join us today listening in. In each episode, we go beyond the page, go figure, of articles published in choice Magazine and dive deeper into some of the most recent and relevant topics impacting the world of professional coaching, exploring the content, interviewing the talented minds let's see if I get it right there. No, there, oh, I don't know. I can't do this on Zoom and I'm covering the stories that make an impact.
Garry Schleifer:choice is more than a magazine. For over 21 years, we've built a community of like-minded people who create, use and share coaching tools, tips and techniques to add value to their businesses and, of course, to impact their clients. In today's episode, I'm speaking with executive and team coach Dóra Hegedűs, who's the author of an article in our latest issue Unspeakables: Uncomfortable Topics We Avoid that Impact Coaching Outcomes. Her specific article is entitled "Unspeakables ~ the Hidden Trap Between Us." It's a great article. Dóra Hegedűs offers a safe harbor for leaders and teams to reflect and deep dive, reinvent themselves and impact their environment for a meaningful and sustainable future. She's an ICF International Coaching Federation master certified coach, executive and team coach. She's a coach trainer level two, awesome, a gestalt therapist and a supervisor with 30 years, I'm sure it's more than that now, of international business and leadership experience. She received the ICF President's Award in 2012 as a role model for the values of ICF that we all hold sacred, integrity, excellence, respect and collaboration. Well, let me say congratulations and welcome,
Garry Schleifer:Thank you so much for joining us today. Tell me a little bit more about that award.
Dóra Hegedűs:Oh, that's very special. I must say that I had some conversation with Janet. She was the president at that time.
Garry Schleifer:Janet Harvey, yeah, on our editorial board.
Dóra Hegedűs:Yeah, yeah, and I remember very well the moment she called me. I was in the office and I had to sit down because I didn't get what she was talking about at all.
Dóra Hegedűs:It was so much out of the blue, unexpected, unplanned, that really I got a kind of shock and it took me years actually to be able to accept it beyond the physical. Yeah, I got it during the London conference but it took me years to really believe that. I believe that she meant it but do I deserve it? There are so many great coaches.
Garry Schleifer:Yes there are and you're one of them so congratulations again. Let's get down to this. Why did you decide to write this article?
Dóra Hegedűs:I love writing, but I would never write just like okay, let's write something. I need some inspiration.
Garry Schleifer:Oh cool. Well, thank you very much. It is excellent. A couple of things I noticed in there. I really love that you gave us lots of coaching tips. You gave us the perspective from the coach and the client and the impact and also the things that are common to both. So I hope we'll touch on some of that. Question. Why is unspeakables important at all? I mean, when you think about it, we only meet with a client for a certain amount of hours and we don't have to know everything about them. Isn't it enough to work with just what they bring every day?
Dóra Hegedűs:That's a solid question that I hear often during coach trainings, for example. So beginner coaches are just like normally don't feel confident enough to go there, so it's better to stay on the safe side. Topic level, task level, let's talk about your goals, positive images and you can do it attitude, and I think it's perfect enough for ACC level and it's helpful for many. And my experience is that, beyond that, leaders, but also like uh other human beings, just like for life coaching, if they want to achieve sustainable change, a sustainable result, it's not enough to stay on that level. That is obvious, but like okay. So even in the ICF competencies, the unsaid what's there. There is something in the story that was not verbalized yet, but it's important.
Garry Schleifer:Is this an intuition feeling or like I'm getting that's what it sounds like to me. When you say that, right away I have experiences, two recent clients, where I like to joke about saying well, you really buried the headline, meaning they told this story, told this story, told the story, and then this unspeakable thing, it wasn't necessarily unspeakable, but certainly something that shifted the whole conversation came out almost at the end of the story. So we like to call it burying the headline.
Dóra Hegedűs:Yeah, and I think it has so many layers, because there are things, even in therapy, that are too difficult to approach, too difficult to look at directly in the, in the eyes. You remember you just look at through a mirror, otherwise you become stone, and I'm not in coaching. We are not going there, that's obvious. But still there are topics or things that makes you feel itchy, uncomfortable, may trigger shame. So we need to be very respectful and careful
Garry Schleifer:One thing that comes to mind right away when you say that is the uncomfortableness of the coach because of some of the stories that we tell ourselves that we shouldn't go down the path of the past or, you know, might be therapy, and we've published a lot of articles about this and it's okay. Our job is to be informed about being able to handle it the best that we can. We have articles on trauma-informed coaching and things like that.
Garry Schleifer:So that kind of thing. So it's very helpful to know and what I got from your article is that it's okay to go in there. And I'm remembering when I read it, thinking to myself okay, yeah, I'm not an expert in all of these experiences that people have, but I'm curious enough to know and to bring it forward.
Dóra Hegedűs:Again, back to ICF competencies, it's expected that I can manage my own strong emotions and also the clients. That's a professional expectation. So, because anything can happen during the session, I cannot use my energy to control that we stay at the surface level, because then it's flowed the whole thing. And I think how I see the most important role of a coach in such a situation is beside grounding themselves, is to hold the space. We don't have to solve it. We don't have to fix the client. It's not our job. We don't have the license for that. But holding a space, kind of normalizing it, that it's perfectly natural that you feel rage or you feel ashamed and that's very human and it's okay and I can take it. It's fine. That is already just normalizing it. It is a step towards healing actually. It's not our job to heal the client. And of course there are paths how you can invite other professionals. But running away from an emotionally difficult situation is a slap in the client's face. Yeah, re-traumatizing slap in their face, adding to what's already there. You confirm that you are a problem.
Dóra Hegedűs:Hey, fix yourself. I can't deal with it. I always tell, even to junior coaches just stay there, just stay, keep eye contact, breathe.
Garry Schleifer:Oh, so just doing it now, just when you said that I was like taking a breath.
Dóra Hegedűs:Trust the client that they have been managing it for 30, 60 years. They will manage it during the session.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, wow, thank you. Thank you so much. Seriously, this article was brilliant. I want to point out one of the areas of unspeakables, and it's tough secrets. So, before I ask you about preparing for tough secrets, can you give an example or examples of what you consider tough secrets?
Dóra Hegedűs:To put it simple, probably the trigger deep shame. I would put it not a category like financial or adultery or anything can be that brings up shame.
Garry Schleifer:Wow, okay, all right. So now let's ask the question how do you prepare for dealing with those tough secrets?
Dóra Hegedűs:Yeah, that's a good question and it's very much dependent on who I am as a coach. Where are my values, where are my beliefs, how I am biased either in a negative or positive way, so both, because those secrets can hit me actually as a coach. What if they go against my beliefs, my worldview? So, being prepared, I think what is most important is aiming at staying non-judgmental. Of course, verbally we can keep that, but also mentally, internally and if I feel any kind of like something bubbling up, bracket it for the moment, for the session, and deal with it after. That's super important homework. Go to supervision, work with it. It is therapy.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, I was just going to say I'm in a group supervision program so we meet every two months and my case this time last week was exactly about that. The biases that I'm noticing based on gender, age, voice like that oh so many of them, right, and I just thought it was it was time. And then, of course, reading this article. I just love publishing choice. I meet such great people and learn so much. And then we do the podcast and we learn so much more so, thank you. I'm just reflecting back on the answer you just gave and just thinking about being the coach and noticing and self-managing is I think the thing I'm taking most from this. Self-awareness as a coach in the moment and self-management once you see what you're observing. Yeah, cool. Well, we opened that can of worms that you know coaches are biased. Oh, yeah.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, so how do I know I still have biases? I mean, I meant some, but I'm sure I've got other ones. How do I uncover these things?
Dóra Hegedűs:I think you know you still have biases if you have a pulse.
Garry Schleifer:That's brilliant. I love it. Okay, done, all right. Thanks for coming to the podcast.
Dóra Hegedűs:Oh yeah, no, but seriously, it's like sometimes I hear you know enlightened people that they no longer have biases. It's just impossible. We are human beings and I can spend days and weeks without actually experiencing them, but then a sudden stress situation and you just pay attention to your first reaction in your head and it will be, I guarantee, something around that. Whatever nationality or gender or race. I guarantee you, because that's how we were raised. That's from very early on, what we heard at the dinner table and of course we are working on it. Of course it's not influencing like maybe a coaching session, but just let's be honest, it's an effort. It doesn't come naturally. It gives us actually safety back to the stone age, whatever dinosaurs yeah, conditioning yes we had to know whom to trust and everybody else was out of trust.
Dóra Hegedűs:So even in the digital age, it's still true, we need to know whom to trust and just be honest with yourself. There is no good or bad and be aware and work on it and the best thing I think mainly race-wise or nationalities, go there, talk to them, have experience, convince yourself with a direct human experience. There would be no worries. We know that.
Garry Schleifer:You know what I'm and you just touched on this. I get word prompts in my head and one of the words that came through, and it's in this conversation as well, is trust. Trust that your client is naturally creative, resourceful and whole, that we are not here to fix. That trust is a tool to be used to help allow the client to feel very comfortable with you. I mean toss that in with confidentiality obviously. That's a start, and what I wrap that up with is a part of your article about power dynamics, and this is only something I recently like I've been coaching for 23 years and two months like, seriously, I just figured this out.
Garry Schleifer:But we come in with a power dynamic, like so many people. It wasn't obvious to me before and it's not obvious in the relationship, but a lot of the times when, all of a sudden, I'll hear them say, well, what would you do, or can I have some advice? And I'm like, oh right, we're up here again, let's reduce the power dynamics. So I just really wanted to acknowledge you for the intricacy of trust in this article and conversation and also the specific topic about power dynamics.
Dóra Hegedűs:Actually it's a huge trap because we label our profession as a helping profession, right? So it sounds very, how to put it, contradictory. Yes that's the word came to mind for me and humble. I'm helping. On the contrary, if I'm helping, actually why can I help? Because I am stronger?
Garry Schleifer:I'm stronger, I'm wiser. You're hiring me and paying me. All kinds of things can come up.
Dóra Hegedűs:And it comes from the situation. So it's not that we just have to deal with it, we just have to be aware. For the eye level conversation, we have to work hard.
Garry Schleifer:Agreements to continue to remind ourselves and the people we're working with. So even the language, coach- client. It's almost like again our upbringing. Coaches in sports, they're the boss, we do what they say and I'm like so breaking that down or pulling it back or leveling the playing field, using another sports analogy yeah, very important. And like I say just something I recently was made aware of and now I add that into my coaching conversation. It's the same as with diversity, equity, inclusion. When I'm working with anyone I'll say I'm a white man of privilege and I know it. And please let me know if you feel uncomfortable or unable or unwilling to speak about that because I'm okay, I can handle it. Or women, it's like okay, I'll make fun of it. I say, well, I know how guys are, so don't worry about it, I won't take it personally, right. So it just lightens the mood and, you know, adds some safety and opportunity.
Dóra Hegedűs:Yeah, it's really important. And one more aspect to that one is what you talked about. It's be very transparent in what you offer. The other thing is what I love is that feel confident in the space of not knowing and be very human. That so much helps to come off the plateau. And I don't know either. I don't know.
Garry Schleifer:Tell me more. This is a safe space. Some reminders. I really love what you say because I'm on the MCC journey. I have five of the eight things handled to get MCC. The toughest parts yet to come, obviously.
Dóra Hegedűs:Painful road.
Garry Schleifer:Oh, thanks, Thanks, I'm just getting comfortable and everybody's saying oh no.
Dóra Hegedűs:But you feel so good after.
Garry Schleifer:I'll bet. I'll bet. Yeah, right, 23 years in the making. Like I took some time to work more on the business of choice, but I'm back.
Garry Schleifer:Why I'm saying that is because you hit on a key point that I remember while I'm coaching and when I'm thinking about a great coach, being comfortable with the not knowing. Because when you keep coming forward with knowing or things you think you know or want to do, or what's next, or procedure or process or whatever, you're not with the client, you're not listening, you're not, I like to say, channeling the question, because you're too busy holding on to something. So in a way, you kind of block. So be comfortable with the not knowing. Brilliant, oh my goodness, I love it. Can't wait to coach somebody, but it won't be till Monday, unless I snag somebody somewhere at a restaurant and corner them. I don't think that'll work, oh my goodness.
Garry Schleifer:I would like to mention one thing in this article that really hit me quite well and I love the way you say it. It's what this whole issue is about. Facing the unspeakable issues head-on in a coaching relationship is not merely an ethical obligation, it's a calling that goes to the heart of why we became coaches in the first place. Yeah, thank you. Well said, and we're coming close to the end of our conversation today.
Garry Schleifer:And I have one more. I have one more big question what would you like our audience to do as a result of the article and this conversation?
Dóra Hegedűs:I wish that we are all braver to be honest with ourselves regularly. That means also to face feedback, go to supervision, practically exposure, because it's very safe. Mainly one-on-one coaching is a super safe job A bit lonely, but super safe. Normally clients like you right. You have very good conversations, good time together, you feel good, you get paid and years can go by actually without being challenged. You can manage it on the surface, so you don't get challenged and just take a deep breath, go there and also face it that it's a continuous learning. So if you don't feel being challenged, that also means that just like you expect the client right To challenge themselves and go out into comfort zone. Blah, blah, blah, because life is there.
Dóra Hegedűs:And we are sitting in our office or in the Zoom doing the same stuff for years. It's not very authentic. So exposure, that's my wish for all of us to remain authentic, credible, safe for clients.
Garry Schleifer:Do our own work, thank you.
Dóra Hegedűs:Thank you.
Garry Schleifer:Dora, thank you so much for joining us for this Beyond the Page podcast episode. What's the best way for people to reach you?
Dóra Hegedűs:Well, probably actually in the podcast you will find links to my website. I'm also on LinkedIn. I have my Facebook profile as well and on my calendar you can book an intro session, a first chemistry meeting, free of charge, 20 minutes. So, because it's like human to human, you need to feel that it will work not just based on my profile, but also how we click or not.
Garry Schleifer:I can't imagine anyone not clicking with you. You're absolutely fabulous. That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe to your favorite podcast app. I know we're on YouTube, Spotify and Apple for sure. If you're not a subscriber yet, you can sign up for a free digital issue of choice Magazine by going to choice-online. com and clicking the button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery. Thanks, Dora.
Dóra Hegedűs:Thank you so much.