%20(96).png)
choice Magazine
choice Magazine
Episode 113: Evolving Coaching Education: Embracing Anti-Racism with Insights from guest, Chinyere Oparah
Discover the transformative journey of evolving coaching education from race-avoidant to anti-racist with our special guest, Chinyere Oparah, a leading executive, trauma-informed group, and career coach. Chinyere brings her extensive expertise to the table, shedding light on the historical lack of diversity in coaching programs and the profound impact this has had on addressing racial and class privilege. Together, we dissect the International Coaching Federation's stance on racism and discuss actionable steps to incorporate these perspectives, aiming to foster inclusivity and equity within the field.
Explore the vital concept of willingness in personal development, particularly in the context of racial issues within coaching. We delve into the importance of building racial stamina, particularly for white individuals, and how supportive communities like "Coaching for Black Excellence" empower black coaches in overcoming unique challenges. Through personal anecdotes and broader societal reflections, Chinyere underscores the necessity for proactive engagement and humility in advancing racial understanding and equity.
Navigate the complexities of intersectionality in coaching practices as we tackle the challenges people of color face when discussing race with white colleagues. We highlight the importance of being both equity-informed and trauma-informed to create safe spaces for open dialogue on experiences with racism and oppression. By critiquing current limitations within the ICF competencies and suggesting improvements, we aim to inspire continuous evolution in coaching programs, ensuring they better support diverse clients and coaches alike. Join us for this compelling and necessary conversation on driving meaningful change in the coaching world.
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Find the full article here.
Learn more about Chinyere Oparah here.
Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/
Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features that you will not find anywhere else. I'm your host, Gary Schleifer, and I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into the latest articles. Have a chat with the brilliant minds behind them and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. Join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques and what we all love making a real difference in our clients' lives. This is your go-to resource for all things coaching, so let's dive in. In today's episode, I'm speaking with executive, trauma-informed group and career coach, chinyare Oparah, who is the author of an article in our latest issue, and it's called Coaching Education in Flux the Ongoing Evolution of a Dynamic Field Education in Flux the Ongoing Evolution of a Dynamic Field. Her article is entitled From Race Avoidant to Anti-Racist Educating Racially Competent Coaches.
Garry Schleifer:A little bit about Chinyere. S he's the founder and executive director of the Center for Liberated Leadership, which you'll learn more about in the article, which connects and supports equity-oriented leaders as they navigate complex organizational cultures and relentless workloads, no kidding, she trained with the Center for Executive Coaching and is a certified executive, trauma-informed group and career coach. Her practice seeks to help leaders overcome internal and external barriers so that they can unleash their innate wisdom and power and lead from a place of authenticity, purpose and, I love this one, it's coming up a lot, joy. Chinyere has over 30 years of administrative experience in higher education and in the nonprofit sector, including the roles of Dean, Provost and Vice President for Academic Affairs. She's currently a Professor of Leadership Studies and Race and Gender Studies. Her internationally recognized scholarship reflects a lifelong commitment to anti-racism and social justice, and she's published numerous books and essays on issues of race, gender, health, equality and leadership. I beg to ask if you have any spare time, but welcome so much. Thank you for joining Chinyere.
Chinyere Oparah:Thanks, Garry. It's so great to be in conversation with you today.
Garry Schleifer:Oh, no kidding, and thanks so much for writing the article. Like normally, I would ask what inspired you to write it, but I want our audience to know that I have the great pleasure and honor to work with you as a co-lead on an upcoming issue about racism and the backlash next year for choice Magazine, so I know full well where your heart is and why you chose to write this, and I really love that you've pointed it both towards coaching educators and coaches, so give us the responsibility on two levels. So thank you so much.
Chinyere Oparah:Well, thanks for the opportunity. I was excited when I saw that there was going to be a special edition on coach education. So much of the time we talk about our coaching practice and we don't really think about how are we forming new coaches? And I'm somebody who's a continual learner. I love to learn and I'm constantly taking new certifications in coaching leadership assessments, and I really noticed that there was a gap in most of the programs that I took, and so I thought this is a great opportunity to open up a conversation and really, from a place of inquiry and curiosity, get people to ask themselves questions about the coach education they experienced or the coach education they're providing.
Garry Schleifer:Thank you, and I'm going to hit it out like get this party started right away by referring to something you said and that I've experienced. Many coaching education programs were founded by white coaches and lack diversity. Like, no kidding, from early days, you look at the roster of all the members of the board at the original and all the first presidents of the ICF, they were all white people.
Chinyere Oparah:Right, and you know there is that history of coaching, right. Coaching traditionally, in this country at least, has come out of a tradition of privilege in relationship to race and class and that has meant that BIPOC coaches have not been a part of formulating what we do, and so that means that there are some gaps. I think it's not something to get paralyzed over. That's what I'm really trying to encourage people in the articles. Just because our organization is predominantly white and I recognize our organization in that, doesn't mean there's nothing I can do about it. Right, there's a lot we can do about it. But starting from understanding the reality of the context is really critically important. You know, I think it's really interesting that the ICF did come out with a statement that I start the article with on condemning racism and systemic inequality, and that statement, I think, was very powerful. It came out, of course, when a lot of organizations were issuing statements after the terrible murder of George Floyd and it invited coaches to think about how they could better dismantle inequality, be allies and drive meaningful change. So there's a precedent there in the ICF to call on us to really do that examination and to do that work.
Chinyere Oparah:But oftentimes when you go to a coach training program, even one that is aligned with ICF, you don't come across this statement. I have to tell you that I've taken quite a few ICF aligned training programs and none of them provided this statement as a starting point for conversation. So that's just an obvious starting point. You know, if we're ICF aligned, let's start with that statement and let's unpack it and have a have a conversation about what it means. So there's, there's a starting point. It's an invitation. I think that invitation is not really telling us exactly how to do it, but it is saying there's some work to be done there in these programs, you know, and then we could get to, well, ok, so what do I do? You know my program has not addressed this issue in the past, and now I'm realizing perhaps we should have.
Chinyere Oparah:What do I do next?
Chinyere Oparah:And I think that you know the obvious starting point is to start with simply educating oneself. Sometimes I think the inclination is to say, well, let me reach out to Chinyere and ask her to come do a workshop in my program. That's very surface level, right. And so what we really want to do is to do a deep dive and educate ourselves. And so there are so many wonderful books out there now on racial trauma, on microaggressions, on misogynoir in the workplace, which is that combination, that toxic combination of racism and sexism, the Black woman experience, on systemic and structural racism, right, and how these show up in individual lives, because as coaches we're interested in the individual.
Chinyere Oparah:And I mentioned some of the books. Of course there wasn't room for a whole reading list, but I mentioned Black Women at Work by Wendy Williams and White Fragility. But I also love my Grandmother's Hands, which is a beautiful book on racial trauma. If we want to think about it in different sectors, you could read the New Jim Crow. It talks about everything from the history of the convict lease system after slavery all the way up until today's mass incarceration.
Chinyere Oparah:Medical Apartheid is another amazing book that talks about the history of racism in medicine and one of my go-tos and it's getting old now, but it's a good one.
Chinyere Oparah:It's called Black Wealth, White Wealth, and it really shows how white wealth has been premised on a history of eliminating wealth for black people, right?
Chinyere Oparah:So whatever place we're starting from, whether it's medicine, whether it's the finance sector, whether it's education there's a book on that and I think starting with educating ourselves on that, um, that would be the starting point, then, from that place, we now, I think, would be at a place to say okay, well, let me now think about partnering with BIPOC black indigenous people of color coaches and educators, and having a conversation about how I can actually really infuse this into my coaching program and recognizing that there's labor there. There's labor for that individual. If I'm asking them into conversation, there's labor in the many years of preparation that has gotten to the place of actually being a coach educator who is familiar with this content, and so let's actually remunerate that, right. Let's not just reach out and say, hey, can you come do this for free, because that perpetuates, right, the systemic inequality, and last of all, I would say we're coaches and I hope we believe in coaching right.
Chinyere Oparah:We believe in the transformative power of coaching.
Chinyere Oparah:So I certainly do, and whenever I'm embarking on an important new endeavor, I engage in peer coaching. I get coached on that project, on that initiative, so that I can really go deep and look at my underlying beliefs, perspectives and values and not just do it from a surface level. So I would say, you know, get an equity-informed coach, equity-informed educator who does coaching, and go through a journey from where the program is today to where you want it to be. You know, explore your own limiting beliefs. One question I would ask is, if this program has not really addressed issues of race, racism and equity and it's been around for a while, why has it been okay for that to be the status quo?
Garry Schleifer:Well, and why would ICF continue to give full accreditation if they make a statement and then don't look for it in the programs?
Chinyere Oparah:Right, that's a question for ICF, but even a question for the educator would be, what kinds of privilege or white fragility have shown up in your own coach education organization that have made it sort of the norm that this wouldn't be addressed. So there's a lot to unpack there. There's a lot of unlearning and there's a lot of learning and I would say it's a wonderful opportunity for growth and that's what we're all about.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, yeah, exactly. Wow, so much, so much you've said there to get our heads around. You gave some first steps for coaching educators, obviously, learning, get informed. What else would you suggest for coach educators who are less familiar with these ideas and concepts?
Chinyere Oparah:Well, like I said, I think that the starting point is you know, we live in a world that's absolutely infused with race. Racism is very visible, right? We're constantly confronted with the brutal murders of black people in this country. We had this terrible outburst of anti-Asian violence in the wake of, you know, all the allegations around COVID, and so you know it's not, we can't be ignorant of it.
Chinyere Oparah:It's right in front of us, and so I think the first question would have to be you know why has it been something that I've been okay with allowing myself to be unfamiliar with? Is it in fact that I have some reservations about getting familiar with it? Is there some underlying fear? Am I afraid that if I open my mouth and start talking about this stuff, that I'll say the wrong thing and that I'll be seen as racist? Like what are my limiting beliefs that are holding me back from doing this work? So that would, I think, have to be the starting place, would be, as I said, do some coaching with an equity informed coach. It could really help you to work through these questions. At that point, you know, once we began to kind of tap into our willingness. You know I always like to talk to my clients. Ok, what's your level of willingness, on a scale of one to ten, to embark on whatever this thing is that you say you really want. Well, it's kind of six. Ok, let's look at that four point negative, what's holding you back.
Chinyere Oparah:So once you've unpacked that and maybe got up to an eight, like I'm eight out of ten willing to do this work then I think that then the work is the work that I've laid out right.
Chinyere Oparah:Then at that point it's like get yourself a reading list, maybe sign up for a course, identify some BIPOC coaches to partner with. One of the things that I've been really enjoying lately is that I started a group called The Coaching for Black Excellence Group. Sometimes you hear that, well, I just don't know who to reach out to, there aren't enough coaches of color, or something like that. So I started this group. It's an affinity group for black coaches who are really wanting to hone and improve their skills working with black clients, bearing in mind that, as black coaches, oftentimes we haven't been taught in a program that addresses these issues either. And so you know, there are many spaces in which you can reach out and identify BIPOC coaches who could partner with you around thinking about how you might improve your program.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, and you know when, in listening to you answer this and in this conversation, I'm interchanging easily coach educator and coach. So this, this isn't just something for the coach educators to be doing. I know the issues about coaching education, but it's also about the education of coaches, so doing the work yourself. I'll tell you, one of the first things that stopped me from moving from a six to a seven or higher was the fear of making a mistake, and what I say to people is that if I make a mistake, let me know. I'm here to be better, to learn and to change the ways that I've had that have kept me from having conversations about race and racism.
Chinyere Oparah:One of the biggest motivators is racial stamina. That's a concept that comes from the book White Fragility that I mentioned and you know, in that book it really talks about the fact that people of color develop immense racial stamina because we deal with racism from day one, right. I remember as a, I think, elementary school kid, you know, experiencing a racist incident at school and having to go home and try to figure out, okay, what happened and why and what do I have to do about it. Right, so from maybe a very early age, you've begun to develop a toolkit to deal with racism, to confront it or even sometimes to tolerate it. If it hasn't been safe to confront it, to understand it, to talk to other people about it. You could develop a language. You've got experience in talking about your experiences.
Chinyere Oparah:For white people that may not be the case at all, right, they may see racist experiences, but perhaps it was never talked about, right, it was never something that their parents modeled that you should talk about and confront this right. And oftentimes they, you know, grow up with very little racial stamina, very little ability to deal with and talk about race. So you know it's nothing to be ashamed about. It's simply that you know, if I don't have stamina, you know if I'm working with a client who says who was, you know, basically working so much they didn't have a lot of time to do self-care and they told me, you know, I would really like to be able to walk up the top of the stairs. I think they live in an area with a lot of stairs without getting breathless right, without getting out of breath, so they need to build up some stamina right so what do they need to do?
Chinyere Oparah:Well, they don't need to sit there and think about how it's so sad that they get up out of breath. They need to get out there and go, go jogging. So that's the solution to that kind of white fragility and lack of stamina is to build some by getting out there and having conversations and having humility and acknowledging when we're trying something new and acknowledging when maybe we've made a mistake and having another go.
Garry Schleifer:It's very interesting you should say that. I don't even think it was stamina. I think it was devoid of racism. When I grew up, it was in the country here in Ontario, and there was a school of 1400 white kids and one black kid and it was just. It wasn't a conversation, it was okay, there's a black kid. I don't know what his life was like cause I didn't really know him, but I still remember there was only that one kid. So it wasn't that it was a conversation. How would you put that? It wasn't a need for a conversation because there wasn't anybody around that was of color.
Chinyere Oparah:Well, um, I think we could ask the one black kid what his experience was right? I would be surprised if racism wasn't at least a conversation for him?
Garry Schleifer:Oh, for him, definitely, yeah, no question.
Chinyere Oparah:What we have to understand is that, in that mostly all white school in Ontario, you're in a country that has a deep history of racism, whether it's to do with the attempted genocide of indigenous people, right? Or whether it's to do with the exploitation of black immigrants that have come to the country. So it's embedded, it's infused. Indigenous Canadians, I understand, weren't even able to access citizenship for many years. You have the long, so all of that is actually there.
Chinyere Oparah:The racism is actually in erasing that from the history. So when the story, the history of Canada, was taught, the truth would have been to talk about that history of attempted genocide, to talk about the boarding schools in which Indigenous children were stolen away from their families and brutalized, which now, as we know, there's been many lawsuits as it has brought the church to its knees in terms of the amount of money they've had to pay out. That would have be the truth. So the racism was precisely a race avoidant racism. The race avoidant racism is where racism is occurring There's erased. Uh, there's an avoidance of talking about it. So that's a wonderful example of actually, you know, what you described is a wonderful example of what we're talking about in the article.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, no kidding. So another story. Okay, this is really ironic. I just thought about it. In 2019, I went to the Association of Coach Training Organizations annual conference and the speaker one of the main speakers, Robin D'Angelo, and my epiphany came when, of course, I don't know if you noticed this, but the majority of coaching educators are women, the majority of coaches are women. And so there I was, representing Choice Magazine, at the back of the room, one of the few white men, and it was the first time I heard and it struck me like a thunderbolt, that I was a white man of privilege. Now I could have gone two different ways. One, I could have been like shamed. We talked about that. I literally it stopped me and I had to stop and think about it because it felt like I was being pointed out, but all she had done was make the phrase, say the phrase and I had heard it.
Garry Schleifer:I think
Chinyere Oparah:Hopefully you know, there were those moments, for many folks, and then sometimes those moments don't happen organically and we actually have to put ourselves in a situation right to do the work. You showed up at a conference where they speak about fragility, so that opened up the door for you to have that experience. I think the question then that I think about is, you know, so in the article, I start out by sharing a story of actually a kind of combination of clients which I've blended into one, for obviously anonymity who I call Tasha and Tasha was somebody who's been in this first year in a very high stakes role. They've been experiencing all kinds of microaggressions and gaslighting, told that she needs to make more of an effort to fit in, but really you know, experiencing a lot of exclusion, and finally is told that she's going to be removed from her position, right, and so comes in really just beaten, just emotionally devastated, and I talk about okay, so what does the coach need to be able to support Tasha, to really understand what Tasha's going through? And when we have this experience of gaslighting? Gaslighting is this concept where something's right in front of you, but everyone around you is saying that it's not right in front of you, it's not happening. So that happens.
Chinyere Oparah:So much with racism, particularly because for many people who "don't see race came from environments where racism wasn't happening. Well, in fact it was, but it was race aborted racism right, like what we just talked about. There's a tendency to say, oh no, are you sure that was really racism? You know, maybe it was just that you needed to work harder to fit in. And so oftentimes we have a toolkit that would actually encourage the client to think about building, you know, managing up, building power base, creating better relationships with their peers. All of that would be focused on how they might change themselves without really looking at how is this structure intensely toxic and how is that actually undermining their ability to lead in that situation?
Chinyere Oparah:Sometimes the answer is to continue to try to struggle and fight within the context, and sometimes it's so toxic the person actually needs to leave.
Chinyere Oparah:What they do need is a coach who is actually both actually equity informed and trauma informed, right, that understands and is not going to try to lead the conversation into a race avoidance space or even is going to promote questions that actually would allow the client to know oh, this is actually a space where I don't have to gloss over issues around race and racism. I can actually talk honestly about what happened to me, and I've had so many experiences with coachees where early on they've said, oh well, I guess this is a space where I can just like let it all out then. I see we're gonna talk about everything, and then they kind of switch you can see them actually switch into this mode where, oh, it's okay to talk about racism here. So I think that many white coaches don't understand the extent to which people of color have been used to talking about their experiences in the workplace in ways that actually gloss over or avoid talking directly about race, because precisely we understand the white fragility of many of our colleagues.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, wow, thank you for that. Very, very clearly, and I think that's what I was in the beginning. Now and you mentioned this in the article as well I make it not just the coaching readiness but the contract, and I don't know when I look at somebody, because I know some friends of mine and they're of a different race, but they look totally white, so you can never make an assumption. They're Roma, which is another race, and so I now make it part of my onboarding. My intro session is to talk about anything, sexism like I'm a guy, you're a woman. Please, let's have an open conversation about what we might not be talking about.
Chinyere Oparah:Oh, absolutely, and you know these are absolutely intersectional issues, right? When we talk about intersectionality, we're understanding that when we show up, we don't just lead with one identity, right? I don't just walk in the room as a Black person, I walk in the room as a Black woman. There's an intersection there, and sexuality, sexual orientation, comes up as another form of identity and another experience of oppression that may or may not be visible, right? So all of these pieces need to be in the conversation. It's not just about being um aware of race and racism. It's also about understanding how those intersect with other aspects of our identity and creating this space where that can be discussed.
Chinyere Oparah:Just this last week, I was talking to a potential client and they asked me oh so you know, how do you feel that you're equipped to support LGBTQ clients, knowing that that's another access of diversity? And I was able to talk both about my own experience as a queer leader, but also I was able to talk about the ways in which I've supported clients to really think through how they manage those kinds of incidents of microaggressions around homophobia, but also just the kind of mundane, everyday exclusionary practices such as okay, invite your husband if you're a woman, right the assumptions of what your family might look like.
Chinyere Oparah:The other thing I really wanted to mention was that you know there are some good examples out there of people who have done this really well. I did want to name actually I did a trauma-informed coaching program with Farosha Knight and her program really created a space where you had readings, you know, to kind of get everyone to a baseline of understanding, but then there was a lot of space to unpack and some really great prompts that really looked at this intersectionality. So that might be historical trauma, it might be intergenerational experiences of racism, colonialism, and it might be contemporary experiences of gender based violence, and so she did a really wonderful job in a coach training program of really bringing all those pieces together and encouraging us to think what does this look like for you? Your context is going to be unique to you, and so these readings and this inquiry really helps you to dive deeper into your own experience.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, well, thank you. Brought me full circle back to coaching education programs. Anything else that you think that a perfect, perfect, an ideal, maybe coaching program should include on issues of racism and white fragility?
Chinyere Oparah:Yes, I love that we rolled back from the perfect.
Chinyere Oparah:It's not going to be perfect.
Chinyere Oparah:In fact, the recognition of the imperfection is going to be a really important part right. So that we're continually open to growing. If we think we've got the perfect program, then we're not going to be willing to listen to the coachee.
Garry Schleifer:Let's work with ideal or better than it was. Yeah.
Chinyere Oparah:Yeah, and so I mean that might be an interesting starting point. What do the students in the program think? What do the Black, indigenous and People of Color students in the program think? How do you know? What kinds of assessments do you have? So that might be an interesting one. Are there ways that you're actually asking questions about the learning journey during the process and at the end of the process and therefore learning from it?
Chinyere Oparah:One of the things I did for this article was I actually sent out a quick survey to a number of coaches who had recently graduated from coach training programs and just asked them a bunch of questions. You know, did you address these issues, were these things looked at? And I got some great feedback. I think it would be very easy for coach education programs to send out a sort of mid, middle of the course and then an end of the course survey and then use that information and that feedback to continue to improve the program. So that's another starting point.
Chinyere Oparah:So really being something that is evolving, that is listening, that has feedback mechanisms, will be really important. I mean that would be something that we could learn from. I mean, I'm in higher education, higher ed. We're very into mid-semester and end of semester evaluations and then using that as a form of continuing assessment. But I don't really see that as much in coach education programs. I have not had a lot of really in-depth opportunities to evaluate my experience after completing them, so that would be, I think, another important starting point.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, you brought up a number of things both in the article and in this conversation that I want to reintroduce as well. Talk about the statement that ICF made, and I love what you said. Talk to the students about racism and white fragility, right, kind of call out the elephant in the room, if you will, or the not elephant in the room. Just be aware that it's a conversation that needs to be a part of the conversation.
Chinyere Oparah:Yeah, and it's obviously still evolving at ICF, because when you look at the language of their statement condemning racism and systemic inequality, the strength and clarity of that language does not yet show up in the ICF competencies, right, which of course were recently revised, but the competencies really still focus on culture and they really still focus on sort of the context of the individual. Those things are important but they don't spell on sort of the context of the individual. Those things are important but they don't spell out well, what is that context? The context of structural racism is one that is not just a context for BIPOC clients. Right, we all live and breathe this atmosphere we're all living in the midst of, you know, for example, right now, an incredibly racially fraught election period. So actually having some language that you know begins to identify issues around racism and systemic structural inequality could be really helpful for the ICF competencies. But that would be for future evolution.
Garry Schleifer:There we go. We've introduced the conversation. It's in in the universe, just as a matter of having more diversity on the of the group that reviews the core competencies, or allow the dei director I'm blanking on her name right now to be more a part of the overall uh conversations at um, at icf, to start with yeah, yeah, I think that one of the pieces that we often assume is like well, if I've got a lot of diversity, then these issues are going to be addressed.
Chinyere Oparah:But, as I mentioned, many BIPOC individuals are raised with a lot of knowledge and awareness of how to not talk explicitly about race and racism. So just having somebody in the room doesn't mean that that necessarily is going to conversation that they're comfortable having in that context. The other thing I would say is that, you know, we're beginning to, in within this space of DEI and academia, we're beginning to talk about the difference between interpersonal and structural competency. So interpersonal competency would be like cultural competency. A lot of people are familiar with that. Well, you, you know, you understand there are cultural differences. Um, you know, if you are a culturally competent hospital for example, I do a lot of work in maternal health um, and you know there's a african or asian family that's just had a baby, don't wrap the baby in white and give it to them, because white is the color that you would wrap a dead baby in, right?
Chinyere Oparah:so so, there's some basic cultural competency issues there. Um so, we understand cultural competency, right? Cultural competency in terms of um, looking people in the eye versus not. In some cultures it's considered rude, and now that in american culture not looking in the eye is considered kind of a little bit shady, and you know like you're not being direct so there's many different.
Chinyere Oparah:yeah, so there are many things in cultural company that's interpersonal. This is all about interpersonal. But when we think about structural competency, we're really looking at the structural context for black life, the structural context that looks at some of the systemic inequalities that are experienced throughout a lifetime and then show up in the body. Structural competency is not something that everybody has. It's something you have to learn, actually you study it, and so I would really encourage folks to think about you know, just as, for example, in higher ed, when we're thinking about learning about race, racism, dei issues, we look to somebody who's trained in that. I have a PhD in it. I've taught it at university for 19 years, 20 years now, I guess. So that's really different from simply, well, you know, oh, I'll get this person because they're black. So I just really want us to kind of not tokenize individuals as well.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, no, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to infer that. I just thought it's an opportunity for it to be. You know, you take a step to have somebody in that role, engage them, or engage someone to expand the conversation.
Chinyere Oparah:Oh, absolutely and certainly it's both, and I certainly wasn't saying it wasn't a good idea. We should absolutely diversify, just because we should have a diversity of experiences around any table. It's going to improve the work we do, but then we also need to look at the expertise, so it's a combination yeah, thank you.
Garry Schleifer:Thanks for that. Um, oh, my goodness, what a fabulous conversation. I'm going to ask you one more big question, but I can't let you go on forever about it. I just want to warm people up to the next issue that you and I are working on anti-racism and coaching in an era of backlash. When we just spoke the other day, right away on my newsfeed I got a notice that two major international corporations were pulling back on their DEI. What's going on?
Chinyere Oparah:Yeah well, that will be something that all of the contributors for us will talk about in depth, right? I would just comment that what is going on for our clients? Right?
Chinyere Oparah:This is a critical moment as coaches, for us to understand that this intense backlash against everything to do with equity is hugely harmful for those people that we're working with, and we need to be equipped both to, you know, participate in having a community that's actually committed to equity and DEI and it's actually saying, yes, this is something we do actually want people to experience fairness in everything that we do. We don't want to go back to an era that I think many on the right would prefer us to go back to, when you actually had no right to stand up against inequality and racism. So we would want to do that. But also, as coaches, I just think it's really critically important that we understand this impact. Even just this morning, I got if I get various newsletters, I got another newsletter another university that's slashing tens of jobs because they have DEI in the title. So this is having a very real impact on the individual's livelihoods and a stifling impact on an individual's ability to speak out for justice.
Chinyere Oparah:It's really quite scary and I've heard leaders saying you know, particularly in higher ed, where you should have academic freedom. I'm worried now about speaking out about the issues I care about. So I hope that people will, you know, be very excited to join this conversation. It's a conversation that I've really launched. Actually, earlier this year, we launched the Center for Liberated Leadership, and it was precisely because this is a moment in which we need to think about how can we support equity oriented leaders, moment in which we need to think about how can we support equity oriented leaders BIPOC leaders, women, LGBTQ, but everybody who cares about equity and wants to see some change, wants to see some improvement in whatever area they're working in and really thinking about how can we come together to support and resource those leaders, because these are really difficult times.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, no kidding, and I'm on this side as a gay, openly gay man, so I'm proud to say we're we're working on it over here. I'm going to refer people to our, to your wonderful article of the six the short list of things, no, not the complete list six things you can already do to as a coach educator, as a coach, to be better informed. But what else would you like our audience to? Uh, as a coach educator, as a coach, to be better informed, but what else would you like our audience to do as a result of the article in this conversation?
Chinyere Oparah:Well, presumably that they've got the article, they've read it and they're thinking about where do I land on these six and maybe getting some coaching around how they want to move forward. I would just say, um, go to myliberatedleadership. com, which is our organization, register and get to be part of the conversation ongoing.
Garry Schleifer:Myliberatedleadership. com, and I guess that's the best way to reach you.
Chinyere Oparah:Absolutely.
Garry Schleifer:Awesome. Chinyere, thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Beyond the Page. Absolute pleasure working with you and talking with you. I can't wait till we work on putting out that next issue.
Chinyere Oparah:Thanks, Garry. I appreciate your openness and your real invitation to be part of this conversation.
Garry Schleifer:That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe, like you did to get here via your favorite podcast app. If you're not a subscriber to Choice Magazine, you can sign up free by scanning that. Hold on, if I get it right, these reverse screens kill me, by scanning the QR code or going to choice- online. com and clicking the sign up now button. Thanks again Chinyere. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.