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choice Magazine
choice Magazine
Episode 114: Revolutionizing Coaching Education: Transformative Training and Future Trends with guest, Dr. William Bergquist
Discover how to transform coaching education in our conversation with the esteemed Dr. William Bergquist, affectionately known as Bill. We promise that you'll learn how to create impactful training programs that ensure information retention and lasting effects on participants. Bill's extensive background in faculty development, leadership training, and coaching offers a unique perspective on the ongoing evolution of coaching education, helping you to gain valuable insights into the world of coaching training programs.
The episode also explores the burgeoning field of online coaching, highlighting how these programs can revolutionize coaching practices. Drawing inspiration from Lewin's change model, we discuss the crucial stages for fostering sustainable transformation. We go beyond the digital realm to emphasize the need for in-person orientations and support groups as keys to success, ensuring that online learning is effectively applied in the real world. Listen in as we measure the balance between virtual education and tangible application, unraveling the exciting possibilities of the fourth mode of learning.
Finally, we delve into the future of just-in-time learning programs, assessing their potential and challenges in professional development. These on-demand modules are designed to enhance retention and application by meeting immediate learning needs but require self-motivation. We stress the importance of comprehensive resources and the creation of pathways to guide learners effectively. Join us as we underscore the evolving landscape of professional development, highlighting the necessity for balanced, structured learning solutions that cater to the needs of modern professionals.
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Find the full article here.
Learn more about Bill Bergquist here.
Connect with Bill on Facebook.
Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/
Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features that you just won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer and I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into the latest articles. Have a chat with the brilliant authors behind them and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. Join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques and make a real difference in our clients' lives, because that's really what we want to do, right, and we love what we're doing. But just saying, please remember, this is your go-to resource for all things coaching. Let's dive in.
Garry Schleifer:In today's episode, I'm speaking with Dr. William Bergquist who forthwith we will call Bill, because that's how I know him, who's the author of an article in our latest issue Coaching Education in Flux ~ the Ongoing Evolution of a Dynamic Field. His article is entitled Training a la Mode ~ Challenges and Choices in Coaching Training Programs. A little bit about Bill he's a PhD, an educator, a coach, a consultant in the fields of psychology and management and has worked with a thousand plus leaders and organizations throughout the world and is the author of more than wait for it, 50 books. I know because I've carried a few of those books around for him. We have history.
Garry Schleifer:His recently co-authored books are the Arc of Leadership and The Crises of Expertise and Belief. And he co-curates two major digital libraries Library of Professional Coaching and the Library of Professional Psychology. Bill served for more than 35 years as the President of the Professional School of Psychology, which is an international graduate school. Bill, thank you so much for joining me today.
Bill Bergquist:Good being with you, Garry.
Garry Schleifer:And we've known each other for how long now? Come on, right.
Bill Bergquist:Ever since we were putting bookshelves together up in beautiful downtown Toronto.
Garry Schleifer:Yes, Adler School, yeah, well, and before that we worked together in the Library of Professional Coaching.
Bill Bergquist:You helped found it, you helped found that library.
Garry Schleifer:I keep forgetting that part, but you know you've done all the work since, so I'm going to give you most of the credit on that.
Bill Bergquist:I will take some of it, along with Suzi Pomerantz, exactly.
Garry Schleifer:Our dear Susie.
Bill Bergquist:Yes.
Garry Schleifer:Well, good, and it's been a long time coming that we have you writing for us and on a podcast. So welcome, welcome, I'm excited. Now, what inspired you to write for this particular issue? And, by the way, did you like the treatment with the ice cream thing? I thought that was kind of very Maine, very nice.
Bill Bergquist:Yes yeah, yeah. So choice magazine, you folks do some wonderful things. The images. It's a delight. I mean, you truly are the coaching magazine. You're right, yeah. So so what inspired me to write this article? Several things.
Bill Bergquist:First, let me just brag a little bit about myself. You go right ahead. I've actually, in the areas of coaching and, excuse me, in the areas of training, I've actually had three lives, not 10 like a cat, but at least three. Real quickly, I initially started doing a lot of training in higher education and I'm often considered one of the founders of a field called Faculty Development. I did some of the very first training of faculty members and administrators in higher education. Then I moved over to doing a lot of training with leaders all over the world. Leadership development, management development, etc. Then my third career where I met you was about training of coaches, and in all three those 50 books you're talking about, a lot of that were books about education and how to teach faculty members, and books about leadership and how to do leadership development and books about training of coaches. So when you asked me if I'd be interested, I said sure, I'd love to, and I'd love to share a few of the ideas.
Garry Schleifer:Well, and it would kind of be a missing because you are one of us from way in the beginning of the coaching industry and it would be a missing if we didn't have you here. So, and you didn't mention a few of your other accomplishments, like you were the co-creator of the Journal of Professional Coaching.
Bill Bergquist:I was co-creator of the International Journal of Coaching and Organizations.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, and you had events that you were spearheaded.
Bill Bergquist:Yes, and we did the Coaching Summit. I've gotten into a lot of mischief sometimes with you, sir.
Garry Schleifer:I know. What was the one we just did a last year before, just after Covid 2022?
Bill Bergquist:Yeah, Executive Coaching with our friend Suzi yes, and a bunch of other people, dear people, getting together actually here in Maine, on the coast of Maine.
Garry Schleifer:It was a wonderful time. Bill, I want to refer to your article. You very clearly spoke about different modalities of training, not just for coaches, but training in general, and one of the things that really stood out that I want to ask about is so what are the best ways to ensure that the perspectives and practices introduced in a training session are eventually and actually used by a training participant? How do you get the glue?
Bill Bergquist:Well, I think, and I wrote a bit about this, that most of the time people measure the success of a training program based on the amount of information that's conveyed. You know you dump a lot of stuff is better than dumping a little bit of stuff. But what we know is the amount of information is one thing. The second dimension is the retention of the information. A lot of research shows that most training programs, within six months, 70% to 80% of what was quote unquote learned has now been lost, forgotten. And even more important than retention is the transfer, or the use. This is what you've been talking about. Does this stuff ever get used?
Bill Bergquist:And the percent, that's hard to measure, but the percent would be very low, and so you end up having training programs all over the place in which very little of it gets used later on. Uh, and part of that and then I'll get into specific things is when we're looking at mature learners, which is what we're doing. Yeah, exactly there's not a lot of 10 year old coaches there.
Bill Bergquist:Probably should be, they're, probably they're probably better than us, but they're often folks that are, you know, a little bit older. What we know, a dear colleague of mine, Ellie Greenberg, used to talk about newly minted MBA folks, a theory rich and experience poor. They've just gone through a whole program where they've learned all the different models of leadership, and they learn all this stuff, but they have absolutely no experience. Conversely, the kind of people we're talking about who do coaching tend to be experience rich and theory poor, and so one of the things that's important to look at is we're not starting with people who have no experience.
Bill Bergquist:The mug is not empty. The mug is at least half full, and usually it's already completely full, and so we pour new stuff in that goes off the mug and spills all over the place. So when we talk about modes of training, I think in the article I talk about four different modes, and this is a gross oversimplification, but I think there's an important concept here about what is most effective. So the classic mode, and I call it mode one, is essentially where a program that's intensive and residential. That's the classic thing such as Executive MBA programs. The Rolls-Royce programs, where you go off and you spend an intense period of time and mostly it's about leadership or management. Very few programs I've looked into, very few coaching programs, are ever Rolls-R oyce kind of programs.
Bill Bergquist:What's important to look at there is that the amount that is learned, the amount of information conveyed, is very high. Part of the reason for that is an important concept in all this stuff has to do with stuff my hero, Kurt Lewin, wrote about years ago, which is unfreezing. People are not open to learning. There needs to be some unfreezing. They need to get. There needs to be a setup for the learning. We need to present them with a puzzle. We need to present them with a case study. We need to find out what are their concerns so they can unfreeze and get ready for the learning. The fortunate thing in kind of residential intensive programs they can be absolutely rich. The unfreezing occurs and then they're living, breathing, eating everything having to do with whatever the concepts are.
Bill Bergquist:It's a wonderful way to get a lot of information out. However, it's horrible in terms of the actual retention of the material after it's done and even worse in terms of the transfer, the use of the learning in real life. So we can say a lot more about that, but most coaching programs don't use that first mode. Mode two is very commonly used and that's what's called distributed residential. That's where people come in and they do a three days or two day program and they go back home and then they do another two days and they go back home, etc, etc. That's very common. For instance, we find, like the Hudson Institute, Newfield University, University of Miami, Georgetown.
Garry Schleifer:Coaches Training Institute, where I did my training back in the day, did it that way. Now it's hopefully online right.
Bill Bergquist:So those were classic things and often you can get a certification with these kind of programs. A lot of ICF certified programs traditionally were of this model. Now what's interesting is that the amount that is learned is not quite as much, because every time that the people are reconvened there has to be an unfreezing that occurs. It takes time to unfreeze and so you have a two or three day program. You're ready to really roll on it day two and you've already lost the day.
Bill Bergquist:However, a lot of research shows the retention is better, greater yeah and transfer is pretty good too, because in between the sessions it'd be very common that they do coaching. Th ey have a support group that goes with it, so retention is a whole lot. Retention and transfer are a whole lot better than mode one. Okay, is this all right? I'm just kind of going through these quickly. you know what, and it's excellent.
Garry Schleifer:You know what? It is excellent and one thing I want to ask your perspective on is, you talked about unfreezing totally makes sense, but there's also this thing I've experienced called re-entry. Y ou go to a program, you unfreeze, you try and make room in your mug for more information and more learning. You go back into the world, especially in the field of coaching, I found, it's almost like you're a zombie. You're talking another language to the world and they don't understand you and you have to like oh my gosh, that's right, I'm not in my coach training program anymore. so let me respond to a couple things.
Bill Bergquist:So let me respond to a couple things. First of all, what I think is critical at the end of any residential program, whether it be dispersed over time or intensive, is the last part of it should be preparing people to go back home. I always do things I say okay. So let's rehearse what you're going to tell your spouse or what you're going to tell your friends about what just happened and what is that about. How are you going to sustain some of this material? Tell me three things he sustained. One of these I like doing is I like doing the six month letter, so I have them write a letter to themselves six months in the future. So they're saying, okay, Garry, so Garry's writing the letter. Okay, here's some of the things you learned. Have you done any of that over this last six months?
Bill Bergquist:No, Garry, I know all your defense mechanisms because I'm you, so here's the things you usually do to wiggle out of this stuff. Did you wiggle out of it? And then they seal the envelope, and I hold them and in six months I send them the letter. One of the powerful things that first of all, they say who the hell is this person? They said I've seen that handwriting.
Garry Schleifer:I've had that experience where I get this letter from me.
Bill Bergquist:Yeah, it's very powerful. The other thing, of course, is practice what you preach. That is, when people go back home they should have a coach about their coaching. How critical it is that they that they have someone they've worked with or a support group where they share with each other and keep honest.
Bill Bergquist:I often will have clips from the actual session and so if a support group meets, they review some of the some of the stuff that was taught or written material. So those are some things I think what you're saying, and part of it, of course, that's unfreezing. And then Lewin would say there's a learning that occurs, hopefully, and then there's the refreezing and what you're talking about the transition back home is the refreezing, but hopefully it's not refreezing back to what it was before.
Garry Schleifer:Because, as my dad the butcher said, you can only refreeze meat once. But in your case we've cooked it and then you can freeze it again.
Bill Bergquist:No, that was some of the critical kind of issues, yeah, and if you're thoughtful, like you're talking about, thoughtful about the transition back to the real world, you're more likely to find retention and transfer. And you're also more likely to find that your relationship with your significant other isn't destroyed.
Garry Schleifer:Don't coach your spouse is the learning I always got.
Bill Bergquist:Well, and also, once again, if the program was successful, you just had an affair. I mean you kind of fell in love with other people or with ideas. Yeah, and your spouse, your significant other, is likely to say what the hell happened.
Garry Schleifer:What Kool-Aid did you drink over there?
Bill Bergquist:Yeah, yeah. So one of the ways you avoid all this stuff you move with the mode three is online programs and what you were talking about, Garry, earlier. A lot of programs are going over to online. Obviously, part of the reason is convenience they tend to be less expensive. People can fit it in around their busy schedule. So that was original, like CoachU was originally.
Bill Bergquist:And then places like Capella University. Many universities, traditional universities, Purdue, for instance, a number of them have online coach training programs. Now there's several things about online programs that make them potentially effective. First of all, many of them begin with an in-person orientation program, so that you start with bringing people together in person for a day or two, so you begin to build a community, and so there's some unfreezing, kind of in general unfreezing that occurs. I think online programs that begin with this kind of orientation in person I think are from what I've talked to people are often much more effective than if you begin just with online, or you may do online first couple times and then come one time together in person. The other thing is the idea of the support group.
Bill Bergquist:That seems to be critical, that there's a group they meet with in between their sessions.
Bill Bergquist:And third, almost every one of these online programs have some sort of guidebook, some sort of book that goes along with it, supplemental materials or videos or the technology yeah and so that orientation, support and guidebooks, I think, are really critical. So some of the people who are watching this video, if they're setting up programs, you know, if you're going to set up an online program, those three are really important. And what about the benefits? The amount? Middle. You're not learning as much as a residential intensive, but you're learning a fair amount. Retention is fairly good. There's evidence saying it's fairly good. Transfer, on the other hand, tends to be pretty high.
Garry Schleifer:Interesting.
Bill Bergquist:Because what it means is you're getting that stuff and then you can almost immediately try it out. So of those three modes, probably the transfer is as good or better than certainly than any of the distributed program.
Garry Schleifer:Any idea why that is?
Bill Bergquist:Yeah, I think it's part, and we see even more of it when we get into the fourth mode. You know just in time. But part of what it is is that typically when you have an online program, the length of time between what you're learning and trying out and you're using it is really quite short. You know, you may do it a few hours later, the next day or two. It tends to much tighter but you're not having to do with all the logistics of traveling and coming back. It's right there. The setting, you're in your office and if you're coaching, you're either in your office, someone elses. It's much closer to the real world.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, good points, thank you.
Bill Bergquist:So not having an affair although the language has changed.
Bill Bergquist:But you are, you are having a flirtation. Then there's the fourth, and the fourth is really quite interesting. This is, I think, going to become much more common, and that often goes by several names, but let's call it just-in-time programs. That is, for instance, several years ago I was working with a finance company and I was meeting with the president and we were talking about their professional development program. And he points to his computer and he says that's our professional development program.
Bill Bergquist:We have a whole set of modules and different pieces and I trust my employees. When they're ready to learn something, we got something they can learn right there, you know. So two hours from now I'm going to be dealing with a really difficult coach. There's a module there, brief module, 10 minutes, 15 ways to deal with the difficult client or whatever. Or, a tree just fell and cut off the internet. I needed a three-minute program about what to do. The other way, often it's talked about, is on-demand learning. What it is, is that when people need something they know there's a place they can get it. Now what happens is that the amount that is learned may be kind of low, but the retention is medium or high and the transfer is also very high, because you know, you say I need something right now and you get it and then you use it
Garry Schleifer:You have an immediate need and you go do it. I'm more concerned about, you know, people signing up for a course and then they never use it. I'm that kind of person.
Bill Bergquist:Well then, you bring up an important point for this, just in time, or on demand, three huge assumptions go with that. One is that the learner is self-motivated, like you're saying. Second, that they're self-directed. And third and this is a critical know what they need to know. It's back to the old Donald Rumsfeld thing is that you know the things you know and you need to know it. There are other things you don't know and you need to know it. There are other things you don't know that you need. And then the files you know you don't know. That you don't you know.
Garry Schleifer:You don't know what you don't know.
Bill Bergquist:Yeah, so the other critical thing on this whole piece on just- in- time is the modules or whatever you're going to build, it's really challenging. You need stuff that really is easily digestible but not watered down, and that's really tricky. How do you get that? And it has to be updated. So a lot of the just-in-time stuff is old.
Garry Schleifer:It's old by the time it's made, by the time it's put up.
Bill Bergquist:So part of it is something that's not available yet, though choice is close to it and a Library of Professional Coaching is close to it is resource banks, places where people can go for just in time, so you know, so that they can go up to. I keep seeing those wonderful articles that Pat Williams did that are so wonderful for people that are in particular difficult times, and so I think we're at the edge of recognizing that that's kind of where things are going. On the other hand, there's no certifications in those. The second and third modes all have certifications. This fourth one doesn't, so it's a bit tricky how that works.
Garry Schleifer:I've had the experience of doing the just-in-time training, but it was directed like I was told I had to do it in order to get my certification to get clients. So I have had an experience in an organization that said you want to have clients to coach, you have to go through this whole training. It was a horrible system though, but I did it and you know, you got your little progress report and next one, next one, and, to your point, it was bite-sized, it was easy to retain, easy to move forward and answer the questions and get some understanding of what it is that they wanted you to. If it was more about teaching a framework of coaching rather than how to coach.
Bill Bergquist:Yeah and the tricky thing with a lot of these, that's where I mentioned about superficial. I'm enough of a psychologist to feel the distinction between symptom relief and real treatment are important, and I think a lot of the stuff I mean we find it in the Library of Professional Coaching. Many of the articles that are most popular are ones you know, five bullet points or 10, 10 ways to do this, 10 things for this and a lot of those, if you're using it with a client, there's kind of immediate symptom relief, but it doesn't really get it at deeper issues. So that's, I think it's part of the challenging thing. Those are not bad things to have. I'm glad we have them in the library. On the other hand, my stuff my 30, 50 page tomes are wonderful but no one reads them. I find it gratifying.
Bill Bergquist:So there's something in between. And what we need is what broad range. So one of the things we do not have in the library and I think it's not in choice and I don't know where else it is, are what are some pathways, where is some clearinghouse to say if this is the kind of issues doing, here's a couple things. We really need that, and maybe some things Garry, you and I've talked about a coaching quad that Suzi Pomerantz and I are working on. We need places that are neutral, where, where they're not pushing a specific approach. We have a variety, which choice has been wonderful with, that people can say this is some good good stuff, almost like a consumer report or coaching tools.
Garry Schleifer:It sounds to me like you know you add hashtags to your article and that's what shows up when you do a google search. That kind of so yeah, a repository that's searchable. Yeah, take some work to get it to determine what the article will be about and to set it up, but I'm sure with AI now it can read it and probably give you all the hashtags you need.
Bill Bergquist:Yes, we're clearly at the start of that. That's why I'm saying that fourth mode, and what it's going to look like three, five years from now, who knows. But it's much more likely that the training program you go to is called the computer or the handheld device or whatever you got to use and will require self-motivation, self-direction. It'll require knowing something about what you don't know.
Garry Schleifer:What's your favorite of the four modes?
Bill Bergquist:Well, I love mode one.
Garry Schleifer:Well, you would, because you had a physical school. Was it in California?
Bill Bergquist:Yes, but though our students are all over the world. In many ways, it is probably mode two, when I had my coach training program and, obviously, my doctoral programs that I ran for many years. There's something extraordinary about being with other people for a period of time with the shared excitement and everything, particularly if there's diversity.
Bill Bergquist:I mean, one of the things that's wonderful, I think, is mode two training programs, where you bring people together from around the world, which I had the privilege of doing. I mean, in my own graduate school, we had people typically at a gathering we call them from six, seven different countries all over the world and there's richness in that. So truly international coaching programs, I think, are a blessing.
Garry Schleifer:You know when I think about it, after having read the article and this conversation, I would lean more towards the distributed residential mode two, with a just-in-time online training component for retention. Yes, something like that. So some sort of hybrid of them. Yeah, and then you just don't know what AI is going to bring up in the future as well, right, you don't know what impact that's going to have on training? At this point, augmented is really helping. I see a lot of people saying how to develop courses using AI. What I haven't seen is AI actually delivering them right, like some computer or something like that.
Bill Bergquist:And there's a tendency, two things. There's a tendency for AI still to be fairly superficial, to offer platitudes because in some way, you know, because you know, you and I both have in our writing now increasingly we're having suggestions being made about the completion of the sentence. Usually they're kind of trivial suggestions, yeah, but anyway.
Garry Schleifer:So yeah, no, I hear what you're saying. A couple of things come to mind. Number one is what you said about that community, that gathering of energies, entities, physical bodies, and when people are worried about AI taking over. Well, yeah, it's gonna be augmented, there's gonna be low. You know it supports a democratization of coaching, but it's never gonna take over this kind of thing where we may not be physically together, but two human beings having a conversation, or like, do we really wanna get rid of that? And to me the answer is no. It just means you have to keep upping your game and you have to be more relevant than an AI.
Bill Bergquist:And I think in a piece of this about this residential dispersed is the real learning occurs not with the content delivered but with the processing of what happens in that gathering with the content. A real, quick story. I was hired in a place called Witchy which is, it's called a compact agency. I worked with the 13 Western American states, like a treaty organization, but it's among states.
Bill Bergquist:And I was running this magnificent program called the Management of Innovation. Unbelievable, a lot of training, a lot of preparation. We ran that program and it was an absolute disaster.
Garry Schleifer:Oh my.
Bill Bergquist:Well, what was interesting is, somewhere in the middle of it, when we recognized it wasn't working, we stopped and we began to process what was going on, because this was itself an innovation, and it was innovation that wasn't working very well.
Bill Bergquist:So, years later, I'm in the Salt Lake City Airport and there's someone who wanders in to where I was, who had been a participant in the program. I immediately hid behind a plant, a potted plant, but he found me out, oh God, and he came up and he said, Bill, I just wanted you to know that program you ran was the best program I've ever been to about the challenges of innovation. The way you introduced the mayhem, the way you resolved the mess, and then we process it was a great, great strategy to use. And I said, thank you, yeah, we worked just like we wanted to, you know, yeah, well, but the notion and one what was a classic one of this is back after World War II, Kurt Lewin and a group of people convened this major conference about anti-Semitism in America and, like all great conferences, they had speakers there and everyone sat in the audience going yeah, and the speakers would pontificate about anti-Semitism and all that and then at the end of the day, you know, all the leaders got together and talked about what had happened.
Bill Bergquist:Well, there was a woman in the audience who went up to Kurt Lewin and said do you mind if I sit in on your sessions at the end of the day? and Kurt Lewin is that wonderful set, and there's this deep German accent said yeah, good idea. So she sat in and they talked about all I said. And then she said, excuse me, I don't think that's what happened. And pretty soon, the 5-day conference the next day, a bunch of other people sat in and by the middle of the week most of the formal sessions were thrown out and they were processing.
Bill Bergquist:That's brilliant and it's from there that the thing called T-groups training groups began and out of that in the west coast came sensitivity training. What was interesting? Sensitivity training was initially not about interpersonal, about feelings sensitive, but sensitivity to the interpersonal relationship. Right, yeah, but it was the processing. So part of what I think is critical in any program. It's much more difficult modes three and four, but to not just have whatever you're introducing but the processing.
Garry Schleifer:I was thinking of course, our retention happens right? Yeah, yeah, Bill, delightful. I have tons more questions, but I don't have tons more time, so we're going to start wrapping up. Speaking of might not be processing, but actionable items. What would you like our audience to do as a result of your article in this conversation?
Bill Bergquist:couple things. First of all, something I hadn't mentioned, but I'll do it real quick is you need to know something about why the participants are coming to the program, the pre-work. Once again, I ran a major program with a utility company in Kansas and the participants were horrible. They were not motivated, they were resistant and at one point my colleague and I said Donald's a couple of them he were kind of honest was processing. I said well, why in the hell are you here? They said we're not meant to be here. We were here as punishment because we messed things up. Yeah, it was wrong.
Bill Bergquist:They were sent because they were considered the, you know, the high potentials and no one ever told them they put a lot of money was going to tell them you're there because you're terrific, not because you need to be cured.
Bill Bergquist:So part of it is getting a sense of why people are there. So we talked about the end of a program, processing, working on planning, for what are you going to do when you get back home? You need to also, at the start of the program or even before the start, find out why people are there. Why are you there, what is it, what are your aspirations?
Garry Schleifer:I have that happen so many times in my coaching intro calls. I say so how did you find out about coaching? How did you get enrolled in this program? What's funny is some people just like I don't have no idea. They just said go and I went. They had no idea what coaching was. It was being paid for by the company and here they were and they were an absolute delight. You had a ripe opportunity to educate them on what coaching is and what it isn't and what you know, and reminder to them that the commitment that you'll have the best experience ever working with me as your coach. W ell, anybody, all of our fellow coaches.
Bill Bergquist:By the way, I like what you were just talking about. The other thing I was just going to do was what we've already talked about, which is that I think one of the things to take away from this is, if you're involved in the design of a coach training program, be thinking about the mixture of these modes. Yeah, I mean, once again, if you're going to do an online program, why not, early on, have people come together? Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the very first event, by the way, oh it doesn't have to be doctoral program, my our doctoral program.
Bill Bergquist:One of our people said you know, having having been online with some of these people around the world when we met in person, it was like I knew them very well and we can immediately the unfreezing part of just relationships. So mix some things up and gary, you were talking about that. You were saying what if we, what if we combine some of these things? Yeah, so probably the reason I'm mentioning all four of these is each of these has strength and each of these have weaknesses. Yeah, why not mix them up a bit?
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, great idea. I look forward to it. Maybe you're going to do that. I think in your hold on you've got like at least another six lives left.
Bill Bergquist:So seven, let's split seven. Well, my life now has to do with a bucket list of things I want to finish, and part of it is I'm writing three books that are history of my own family. Oh, wow, and that's the classic thing. You know, we know late in life and I am late in my life. Uh, part of it is finding new understanding, appreciation for our own parents and, uh, and telling a history for our family. So my own, my own journey, now the fourth, my fourth life right now is, in addition to writing several big books, I'm also working, you know, on family history.
Garry Schleifer:So oh, and it's funny you should say that because I don't call it a bucket list because I don't want to kick the bucket. I got too much to do but I have a dream book, so it's got over 100 dreams in it that I want to accomplish in my lifetime and I happen to be working on the ancestry section of our family and my dad, before he passed, wrote some memoirs and I'm editing those with the hopes of putting it in a book with some of the pictures that he has of his family. So we're on the same page my friend. Listen, we have to wrap. What's the best way for our listeners to reach you, should they wish to or you want them to?
Bill Bergquist:Well, probably the best thing is that our school still exists. We no longer offer degree programs, but we're involved in a lot of a lot of research, writing, scholarship, a whole bunch of stuff. So if you write to me, care of the professionals.
Garry Schleifer:Well, folks, here's an example of technology at its worst. Bill can be reached through the Library of Professional Coaching, and I'm going to wrap up this by saying thank you so much for joining us for this Beyond the Page episode. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app. If you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine, you can sign up for free or a digital issue by scanning our QR code up here or going to choice-online. com and clicking the sign up now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery. Bye, Bill, too funny.