choice Magazine
choice Magazine
Episode 118: Embracing Change in Coaching: Transformative Group Dynamics and AI Innovations with guest, Jennifer Britton
Unlock the doors to transformative coaching with insights from Jennifer Britton, a trailblazer in team and group coaching. Journey with us through two decades of evolution in coaching education, informed by Jennifer's article, "Change is Good: 9 Questions to Expand and Challenge Future Possibilities in Coaching Education." Explore the impact of early innovators like Ginger Cockerham and discover how changes in the field are reshaping the roles of coaches, educators, and clients. This episode promises to enrich your understanding of group dynamics and the vital contributions of diverse personalities in coaching.
We take you into the burgeoning world of group and team coaching, where the synergy of collective growth and learning is transforming personal and professional landscapes. Navigate the complexities and benefits of this coaching style, particularly for introverts, and appreciate the critical influence of cultural diversity and global connections. Learn how peer-to-peer learning in group coaching supports business success, and explore whether today's coaching methodologies are keeping pace with our rapidly changing world. The potential of AI to enhance coaching processes is also on the table, offering a glimpse into the future of coaching.
Innovative coaching approaches are revolutionizing the way we support growth and development. Discover the power of shadow coaching, where real-time observation and support can lead to profound client transformations. As we examine AI's role in the coaching arena, we consider its ability to provide consistent support and recognize patterns for deeper conversations. Reflect on the journey of continuous learning and mastery, as Jennifer shares her valuable experiences and lessons. This episode is a call to embrace change, maintain core values, and explore expanding possibilities in career choices for future generations.
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Find the full article here.
Take Jennifer's Group and Team Coaching Superpower Quiz
Learn more about Jennifer.
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Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features that you just won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, ary Schleifer, and I'm excited to expand your learning as we delve into the latest articles, have a chat with the brilliant authors behind them and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. Take some time to join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques and make a big difference in our clients' lives, because that's what we really love to do. This is your go-to resource for all things coaching, so let's dive in.
Garry Schleifer:In today's episode, I'm speaking with team and group coach, Jennifer Britton, who's the author of an article in our latest issue and I don't know if you can see this for those that are looking, but there's the cover. It's called Coaching Education In Flux ~ The Ongoing Evolution of a Dynamic Field. Her article is entitled Change is Good ~ 9 Questions to Expand and Challenge Future Possibilities in Coaching Education. A little bit about Jen. She has an MES, an ACTC, a PCC and a CHRL. She's a thought leader, coach trainer and supervisor in the realm of coaching many and the author of the world's first book on group coaching back in 2009. Passionate about supporting coaches and expanding their work to teams and groups, she is the CEO of Potential's Realized, a one-stop shop for all things group and team coaching for coaches, leaders and organizations. And you may not know this, but Jennifer was recently awarded the 2022 Outstanding Individual Contributor Award for her service during the pandemic and around the new team coaching competencies and designation ACTC. I knew you had something to do with that.
Jennifer Britton:In the background.
Garry Schleifer:I knew you had something to do with that, Jennifer. Thank you so much for joining us today. Not only did you write the first book, you are pretty much the go-to person for anything about group and team coaching. So when everybody says to group and team, I go, Jennifer, Jennifer, and away they go. All right, so I hope you get lots of referrals.
Jennifer Britton:Well, thank you, Garry. It is always a pleasure to sit down with you. I was trying to think how long has it been? I think it's been two years since we last got a chance maybe a year and a half, but I was so excited about this, this edition, or this is that what I call it? This edition.
Jennifer Britton:This issue because, I think you know, this year our business celebrates 20 years and I've seen so many changes in the coaching industry in the last 20 years, specifically as a coach educator, because it was 20 years ago this fall that I started offering the precursor to what then became group coaching essentials, which since January of 2006, we've been offering pretty much on a monthly basis. So you know, conversations continue in an ongoing and an evolving world and it's interesting to sit down today, October 2024, all the continued changes of the world. So how does that impact us as coaches and coach educators and the world of our clients?
Garry Schleifer:And how much it's evolved. And a little correction though aren't we at 30 years?
Jennifer Britton:Well, I'm at 20 years.
Garry Schleifer:You're at 20.
Jennifer Britton:I am at 20 years.
Jennifer Britton:The business is at 20 years, but I think coaching was 10 years before when I arrived on the scene.
Garry Schleifer:So let's put it this way Individual coaching started 30 years ago. Group coaching started 20 years ago, when you put it on the map.
Jennifer Britton:Well, I was one of many. So there was also, I have to say posthumously, Ginger Cockerham right, who I really consider to be the grandparent of group coaching, and she was really pioneering even before I hit the scene. But you know, I fell into coaching, as many know, in year 2000. When I first heard about it, I was working in the Caribbean for many years as well, 15 years of my life, and didn't hear about coaching until a conference at ATD 2000. And I was like this is not training, this is not facilitation, which I've been doing for years. There's got to be something different about bringing people together for a conversation. And I kept asking, and it was all about one-on-one, one-on-one. And it's like, well, I don't work one-on-one, I work with governments, I work with communities. There's got to be something where we can fuse what I'm learning about coaching with, you know, the work of many, and here we are, 2024.
Jennifer Britton:And group and team coaching has really like hit the map, shall we say, in, really, especially in the last three to five years.
Garry Schleifer:Oh, come on, you've been hitting the road with it for a long time.
Jennifer Britton:Truly. Well it is neat to see the generations of this and I think it is interesting for people just entering the profession, it is like really? And I don't know the growing pains that we felt in terms of introducing especially group coaching, where it has often seen as being very disruptive, very disruptive. Like what do you mean you can bring groups of people together? And while that might seem normal today, like, why wouldn't we bring people together to learn with and from each other? Yet I still think for some and I've heard this said to me many times you know, being in a group can be very affronting or very I don't want to use the word threatening, but I think if people aren't group people, it can be very affronting.
Garry Schleifer:Oh yeah, some introverts would come to mind for me, that's right away.
Jennifer Britton:Yeah, I think there is a very important cultural layer to this as well, because we can't speak about peers and group process without recognizing groups are often very diverse, which allows us to stretch our thinking, our ideas and, just you know, I think, make some really amazing connections with people all over the world.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, Well, I really appreciate and are thankful that you wrote this article from that lens of group and team coaching and all of your experience, of course, but specifically that. You wrote in here that you pose nine questions for coaches and coach education to consider. What's your favorite one? Because we could go through all nine.
Jennifer Britton:We could go through all nine.
Garry Schleifer:I want everybody to be awake when we're done,
Jennifer Britton:So I think this is related and I'm sort of abridging two different questions, but I'll start with the first one, which is how do our coach training approaches and methodologies represent the changing world of our clients and the world at large? And we live in a world of change, and so how are we training coaches in that landscape, as well as how are we also, how are we also continuing to think about what is possible and what happens in the realm of helping people explore their possibilities? Because to me, that's what coaching is about. It's about looking at the potentials and, like the company name, you know, helping people realize those potentials, which could be quite vast and even quite different from where we are right now. I think the true mark of a coach is a coach who is able to support that big, bold vision of others and, you know, really encourage others to chart that path. However, in saying that, in the last five years, I've met a lot of coaches who actually have removed themselves from coaching stances that, you really think you could do that?
Jennifer Britton:Excuse me, that's not coaching. So again, I think there's two layers, there's many layers to this conversation, but it's also asking ourselves what do we see as possible, what, you know, what is really that expanse that we can be supporting conversations into?
Garry Schleifer:Yeah well, and who are we not to explore the possibility that coaching is something else? I mean, let's face it, the core competencies were reviewed a few years ago in light of them being in place for almost 15 years, I think and so they held well, and you noted that in the article as well. The things that we've done have lasted and there's other things going on, and are we in tune with the changes of the world? Are we just hunkering down and saying, well, it's our way or the highway?
Jennifer Britton:Absolutely, and I think you know there's some really compelling research and data that has come out about the influence of AI. You know, certainly I went to something hosted by the ICF New York chapter virtually a few months ago, maybe earlier this year, and there was a great panel talking about AI and coaching. So I'm always thinking about it through the lens of group and team coaching, like how can AI support group and team coaching conversations? And in fact, ai is better at tracking some of those very subtle details than we could as humans. So in a team coaching conversation especially, there are so many nuances, there are so many elements that a coach, a human coach, may not pick up on that, obviously, superpowered AI is going to track. So I think that's a very interesting piece.
Jennifer Britton:I will own it, though. I am of the sort of the landscape that you know we need each other, people need each other and we have seen that throughout the last few years of the pandemic, and I think that's why group coaching especially and I'll parse it out from team coaching for a moment. I think that's why group coaching continues to be a really exciting opportunity for clients because it's about learning with peers. It's about learning from and with each other, which is different than a team. Team coaching has a very important place, but teams are the engines of business and you know it's important to bring people together to harness that capability. But it is different than if we're in a group and learning peer to peer and I am on a different path than you are but getting, uh, you know, like just getting excited and inspired from others, not just ourselves.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, well, you know and I really appreciate what you're saying, because when you look back on what we were talking about earlier about the, you know the differences in people, let's say an introvert, but isn't exactly what we have to deal with every day anyway and that person has to deal with. So they may be afraid of being in that environment, but it can serve them to be revealed and revered as somebody who thinks and operates differently but can contribute in some way that maybe the rest of the group doesn't realize.
Garry Schleifer:And then there's also you know the extroverts.
Garry Schleifer:And then how do you, how do you, you know, balance that?
Jennifer Britton:Well, and that's it. And you know, a lot of people know me and they would probably be surprised, you know that I was an introvert. I sit on that IED continuum and you know, as I look back on you know my school records it was always like Jennifer, we wish you'd speak up more. You always have something important to contribute. But by nature I'm an introvert and so, even in the work that I do in a coach education that we undertake here at Potentials Realized it's critical that we actually adjust our coaching approaches. Not everyone is extroverted and verbal and is a verbal processor. Right, I'm a writer, I learn by writing. I could speak a lot, but is it to the same layering and level as if I'm writing? It's different. And so I think one of the really important things and this also goes into, you know, approaches as coach trainers. I've done a lot of work as an advocate, probably for the last 12, maybe 15 years or more. We've got to incorporate things like visual cards, experiential tools.
Jennifer Britton:You know, it's not just about asking questions. People learn in different ways and people get engaged in different ways, and that for me, as we look specifically at group coaching and team coaching, when you can bring a group of people together and learn with each other and hear the different perspectives, like that, you leave the room, you leave the Zoom line, your mind has changed and, as Einstein said, that mind is never going to go back to its original form.
Garry Schleifer:Exactly Neuroplasticity. Let's not even go there. You know, I want to say, this kind of fits into a little early in the conversation, but we'll put a quote in your article from Leo Tolstoy, Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing themselves. Well, himself, but I'm going to paraphrase
Jennifer Britton:Or herself. Themselves yes.
Garry Schleifer:Themselves yes.
Garry Schleifer:I know, I know. Always editing, always PCing, but you know that's exactly what we're talking about here is what we do is helping people accept change, be changed, change the world by being more aware of themselves and, in turn, as in group and team coaching, being aware of others.
Jennifer Britton:Yeah, and I think again, you know, my entire career has been as a community engagement specialist. That's where I started and working with communities in the Amazon, all over the world, like, how do we really affect change at the grassroots and at macro levels? It's with others, and I think you know we learn so much with others in contrast and similarity. I think the more we can be with others, the more we become aware of who we are. If we're only looking at ourselves in a vacuum by ourselves, we may not get the amount of layers, as I say in our language, of like really, how am I different? But not how am I different, how am I unique? And I know that is maybe a different or perhaps not a different stance on it, but I think there's truly a Canadian stance to this as well that I want to own.
Jennifer Britton:You know, sadly my father passed away recently, but many people from the community that I grew up in came to the funeral. They traveled to the funeral and I grew up in a part of Toronto that was one of the most multicultural parts of Toronto and it was really wonderful to see friends, people who had been first, you know, first generation immigrants from across the Caribbean. You know, we grew up together and learned together and I think that's part of really what has shaped my mindset of like how do we create powerful learning? And it really is about bringing people together from lots of different backgrounds, ages, races, classes.
Jennifer Britton:It provides us an opportunity to really explore ourselves and to learn from others, and that's at the crux of this work.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, no kidding. Oh, we do impact in amazing ways and and you know, it's interesting at this time, and I think always, if we knew who our neighbor really was, if we were in the shoes of the people who are suffering in the places they're suffering, we would have such a different perspective on life. A lot of our friends, when we talk, we say every kid should go away for at least six months to be of service somewhere or to at least get out of their own country.
Garry Schleifer:Oh yeah, so they can see what life is like in the world. And then I see the flip side. I see fear and I see, and you know, no dis respect to these people, but they're gated communities.
Jennifer Britton:Yeah, and we could have a whole conversation about change and You know the cocooning effect. I did a lot of work actually in the early part of my career around what helps global professionals thrive and you know, really it's in that change impact. You know some people push off the bottom and decide, like I did, I'm going to live and embrace and love this place and have family in different parts of. the world. Others of my peers, you know they went to the diplomat store. That's what they did for two years. They ate the same food, they socialized amongst themselves.
Jennifer Britton:think in a global space, right, I think we can see it generationally and I have to thank my son, who is now 19, second year of university.
Jennifer Britton:He'll hate me for saying this, but you know I have to give a shout out to him because his generation truly is global and the way they interrelate and you know he is one of those people who have been curious about the world. We were driving back to university yesterday and he said you know we were talking about it was a pandemic, good or bad, like that was a whole thing. But he's like you know, I missed so many opportunities, mom. That year I was supposed to go to Ecuador, do a service project. We were to do this and you know he did wind up doing a service project, actually in the Caribbean, and came back after 10 days. His eyes were like, wow, it's part of his DNA, right, he's part. He's part black, he's part from the Caribbean. And his experience has really since then, in the last two years, shifted him. He's always wanted to be what he thought was an urban planner, but now very specifically like climate planner, because we've got to affect change right and truly, who are we coaching as well? Right, like I have found myself in years gone by coaching people who are in a lot of different areas, but they're the world changers, not me anymore, I am like you know one nth removed.
Jennifer Britton:I change the world in different ways.
Jennifer Britton:I'm not on the front lines of post-disaster management work, at least at this moment.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, see, it doesn't mean you can't, it just means you're choosing not to right now.
Jennifer Britton:Yeah, at this moment and with my vision, I'd be a bit of a liability right. That's what I brought me back here. One good eye, one not so good eye, but that's okay, in our work it doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter, right?
Garry Schleifer:Exactly. Oh, my God, We've hit on so many topics here. I want to bring us back to thank you for sharing your favorite question. I have a question that really hit me. It's one when we explain it, maybe you'll get a better idea and I can tell you what I'm thinking. Question two Does our time window of the coaching conversation represent what is realistic in today's world and attention span? So you're telling me earlier about what you thought about this. Let's bring us back to that conversation.
Jennifer Britton:Absolutely. So what does that really mean? So think about your world of your clients right now. How much time do they really have? What does a coaching conversation look like? Really, we live in a world where everything has become compressed, but many things have become compressed, and so have we adjusted our coaching approaches to represent that. Een pre-pandemic, some of my best work as a coach in support of my clients has been in very non-traditional ways, so, unlike the let's meet for an hour this week and you'll go away and you'll do something, Pre-pandemic I was doing some work with some global organizations that have these opportunities to bring people together for you know, very intensive amounts of time and luckily, years ago I had trained as a shadow coach, so I have to give a shout out to Donna Carlin, exactly. It's a highly let's call it a high observational methodology for coaching where you're in the shadows of the work of your clients and I have to say some of that work was truly transformational for them.
Jennifer Britton:I spent like five days on site as they were doing this very high powered work and it allowed the team to really make the iterative shifts and embed those shifts as they were going through this real time, high impact work process. Now I personally we need more of that right. We really need to be coaching people in their natural environment, whatever that natural environment is. If you're a doctor, you don't have an hour. You've got about eight to ten minutes for conversation. I saw that around the same time in some of the work that I was doing that wound up getting a PRISM award coach training for leaders. It can't be an hour, it's got to be short.
Jennifer Britton:So, again, as I say in the article, coaching around the world can look dramatically different, with budgets and resources allocated in very different ways. I think this is a really key issue for us to be thinking about. You know, how do we get innovative and creative by listening to the clients that we're working with and what makes sense for their context? Is it the traditional meet every two weeks? Is it something more "embedded or intensive? What does it look like?
Garry Schleifer:Well, and I could bring up the topic of AI.
Garry Schleifer:I was recently at the Midwest Regional Conference and it was beside a booth with a couple of, admittedly young fellows, but they could create a version of me as a coach that could be accessed 24/ 7 and could be as long or as short as they want. They said because they're not privy to the actual call of course, we're taking ethics and privacy, but they said they've seen some people go to their coach uh avatar, their coach clone.
Garry Schleifer:They're not trying to think of a different word and answer questions in the middle of the night. So think about your question about time.
Garry Schleifer:It's not even just how much time.
Jennifer Britton:Time windows, yeah, and, and I'll poke a hole, as we would say, in the Caribbean. You know, yes, and great for a one-on-one conversation, but what if? What if you want the voices of many? And so maybe at some point there's like a you become like a humanoid with multiple AI's, but I think we all want the human experience.
Garry Schleifer:Clearly, clearly, this is an augmented system yes and augmented meaning that the listeners can think of it as supportive, helping the coach be better and things like what you said earlier. The AI remembers things. So you come to a call and you can say to your AI what's a common pattern that this client's had over the last little while that we should get into and again go back to what we talked about time. So they can access this 24/7 and when it sees a pattern, it will suggest a 10 to 20 minute call to hit deeper into that subject directly with your coach. So we can work with the AI to do it.
Jennifer Britton:Yeah, and you know, this sort of takes us towards the end of the article.
Garry Schleifer:What can we do to support others, including coaches, and bridging the divide of opposites and differences? Right, I think AI is creating yet another layer of have and have not in the world and I think with that we want to create an and right. What are the bridges? What are the opportunities to really, as you said, augment, add on, to supplement, because we don't know. You know, but I can only imagine the pace of change is going to continue to rapidly vent up and how do we react to change, right?
Garry Schleifer:I found in the last six to eight months, even after writing this article, doing so much work with clients, you know, not just individuals, not just groups, not just teams, but entire organizations grappling with. What does it mean to adapt and thrive in a changing environment? And to me, that is truly the question. Change means that we are constantly having not only to reinvent ourselves, but we can only reinvent ourselves if we are clear with what is our core, right? I think, if you reinvent and there's no core to it, it will just collapse. Yet if we know what our core is, we, we can keep iterating and changing, and that's what's being called upon for many of us and our clients, especially where you know I just think about even just natural disasters that are happening and people having to respond and re-respond and pivot, and pivot again.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, interesting times, and I what your son has decided to do for a living.
Jennifer Britton:Yeah, Climate planner.
Garry Schleifer:Like we could plan the climate but I get what you say. These things that when we were kids it was, like you know, we always joke, doctor, lawyer, Indian Chief, like there wasn't a lot to be back. Now, Oh my goodness.
Jennifer Britton:Anything is possible and I sort of I wonder how much is like imprint. I remember very vividly, prior to starting my international career, actually, that same year I was teaching climate studies at York University here in Toronto, 1993. I think I've shared this story before but you know, it's just interesting how the pendulum of life and the world also swings back and forth. But I think what I take great heat in is, yeah, younger generations also. They're going to bring some new ideas to the table. And where do we learn right, what is really apparent with his training? It's a profession, it's collaborative learning, and so again, that's at the heart of group and team coaching. It's about collaboration, it's about learning how to be with and be stretched by each other, how to advocate for and sometimes rooms where people don't want to hear it. But you know, if we're going to affect change, how do we bring people together for that learning process?
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, no kidding. Wow, so much to think about and seriously so much to think about. You've written a lot, we've talked about a lot. What's the most important thing for the coaching industry and everyone involved to explore right now?
Jennifer Britton:Who are you as a coach? So one of my pet projects for the last couple of years has been this Team and Group Coaching Superpower quiz. Some of you might have heard me talk about it before, but it is really about helping coaches expand their range, because, whether we are working with one or with many, the more people we work with, the more we need to be able to hold that space, hold that container. It's not necessarily about doubling down on our strengths per say actually about learning how to hold that wider need for variety and diversity, whether it comes from us or whether we co-coach right. We now have 125 hours of Team and Group Coaching, which is way beyond what is even needed with the ACTC.
Jennifer Britton:But I will say it is important that coaches of many group and team coaches recognize that you got to keep growing Just because you got the basics of group and team coaching. You got to keep growing and one of the most important areas is with ourselves. Who are we? How do we continue to grow and stretch so that we can vary approaches, just like we were talking about. What do your groups really need? If you're working in a global arena, what are the diverse needs and preferences of how people want to communicate, pace, make decisions, interrelate with other people? That's a whole additional competency which I hope maybe in the next iteration we'll actually have global competencies embedded in it, because I think we need to do more. I think in 2024, we need to get better at understanding our own unique ecosystem and what and how others see and interrelate with the world.
Jennifer Britton:So, there's a lot there, but it's about us. How do we keep growing, how do we keep getting challenged? Because I think group and team coaching work challenges you in ways that if you haven't experienced it, just be ready. It's part of the parcel.
Garry Schleifer:You know you say that and I put myself in the shoes of one of the participants. I think, okay, it would be one thing to be coached by one person, but to know other people are watching you as well. It's that whole thing about the ship rises with the tide right, and a great team or a great group would bring that person, the lowest, you know, the struggling person along.
Garry Schleifer:No one gets left behind, sort of thing.
Jennifer Britton:You know the weakest link, but in a team you're really, as you said, totally rising the boat. One of my former staff joined us at the funeral last week and I hadn't seen him in 25 years, but he made the effort and it just brought back, I think, the privilege that I've had in working with amazing teams like where we had to learn with and from each other. We were stumbling through, as young leaders in a highly complex environment and we were all very different nationalities as well, which is really interesting. So I think this is work that is essential in an evolving landscape. It is also work that takes energy, and so I think it's important for coaches to recognize that too. It's not like you can have 50 clients at one time.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, yeah and you mentioned that in the article too, but I'm not going back. Let's have our listeners read the article and get more out of it. Normally I ask what you'd like our audience to do as a result of the article and the conversation but you really snapshotted that and we're going to put in the links for both the superpower quiz and what was the other one?
Jennifer Britton:I can't quite remember, but I know that it's a superpower quiz that I love. There were two.
Jennifer Britton:Yeah, I'll let Garry maybe put that in.
Garry Schleifer:Oh, the hybrid work styles quiz.
Jennifer Britton:Thank you. So there are two quizzes. If you want to learn more about yourself, you'll want to click on the link to the superpower quiz, which will help you look at how can you expand your range into one of the five superpowers. And then, on the flip side, we also want to get better at having different strategies, different techniques for engaging the diverse needs of people in the room. So that's the hybrid work styles. It's applicable to people back in the office, but hybrid augments everything. It makes the work of a team even more complex. So we don't want to just have tools for, you know, adjusting our stance. It's also like how do we help people work across differences in their team environments and group environments?
Garry Schleifer:Yeah.
Jennifer Britton:Awesome.
Garry Schleifer:Well said, thank you. Oh my gosh, what's the best way to reach you, Jennifer? I'm going to guess info@ potentialsrealized. com.
Jennifer Britton:You got it. Info@ potentialsrealized. com. However, we get so much email these days. If I may, I would just say on the end of the quizzes or maybe even in the bio here book a Calendly call, right. I do 15 minute Calendly, like just Zoom calls, because I think everyone is really different, and so an email is one thing, but just book a 15 minute call, no charge. Just let's sit down and have a conversation to hear what's next, because I think in the landscape of group and team coaching, we have people who have been doing this work for 20 years.
Jennifer Britton:We have a whole set of people who have been doing this work for a short amount of time, and all of us, myself included, need to keep learning and growing. The day I stop learning and growing is the day that I should stop doing group work. I've said that for 30 years, more than 30 years, so it's just again part of the landscape, but always a pleasure. I hope, Garry, that it's not another two years before we sit down, or you're.
Garry Schleifer:That's up to you. That's up to you.
Jennifer Britton:I will keep writing.
Garry Schleifer:You keep writing. You'll always be a guest here, not no problem.
Garry Schleifer:Thank you.
Jennifer Britton:Well, thank you for all that you do in being a publisher in a changing landscape. That too deserves a big award.
Garry Schleifer:Keeping up, keeping up.
Garry Schleifer:And again, condolences to you and the family on the loss of your father and happy thoughts.
Jennifer Britton:A life well lived and I only can hope that when I get to be 89, if I am blessed with that, that I, you know, will be able to continue to look back and say no regrets, just as he did.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah.
Jennifer Britton:So I am cut of the same cloth, thank goodness. And as he said, you, you are living on, so made you, made you cough, so.
Garry Schleifer:I know I made it through the whole call to that cough.
Garry Schleifer:Jennifer, thanks again for joining us for this Beyond the Page episode. I look forward to seeing you again.
Jennifer Britton:Take care, everyone. Be well.
Garry Schleifer:That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app, most likely the one that got you here. If you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine, you can sign up for a free digital issue by scanning the QR code in the top right corner, or by going to choice-online. com and clicking the Sign Up Now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.