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Episode 128: Embracing an Interconnected Consciousness with Terrie Lupberger
Executive and team coach Terrie Lupberger joins us to explore how the narratives we live by are undergoing a seismic shift from individualism to a more interconnected consciousness. Through her insightful article, "Are we Prepared for the Shift? Moving from the Meta-Story of Individualism Towards Deeper and Broader Consciousness" Terrie challenges us to consider how these sweeping stories shape our personal and professional worlds, especially in an era defined by rapid information growth and AI. As Terrie shares a glimpse into her upcoming book, "The Inner Work of Work," we are urged to reimagine our coaching and leadership practices to better navigate a world where resources are finite, yet our pursuit for "more" continues unabated.
Through this compelling conversation, we also confront the core of human existence—purpose, meaning, and authenticity—by reflecting on the wisdom of thinkers like Joanna Macy and Alan Watts. Illustrated by a poignant personal story about a mother's evolving purpose, we examine how societal narratives around retirement and contribution are transforming. We embrace the intricacies of coaching, underscoring the necessity of challenging our beliefs to unlock potential and drive societal change. As the coaching profession stands on the brink of transformation, we are invited to rethink its boundaries, ensuring it remains a potent force for navigating the complexities of modern life. Join us as we navigate these thought-provoking themes, promising insights that could very well change how we engage with the world and with ourselves.
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Find the full article here.
Learn more about Terrie Lupberger here.
Listeners can get a free chapter from Terrie's forthcoming book: The Inner Work of Work that can help them support their organizational clients to grow well-being and satisfaction in the workplace by clicking here.
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Welcome to choice Magazine podcast Beyond the Page, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features that you just won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer. As you can tell, I'm excited to expand your learning today, as we dive into the latest articles, have a chat with this brilliant author beside me, and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. Take some time to join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we continue to explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques, and make a real difference in our clients' lives. This is your go-to resource for all things coaching, so let's dive in. In today's episode, I'm speaking with Executive and Team Coach Terrie Luberger, who's the author of an article in our latest issue "what's Hot and what's Not? What is Influencing Coaching? Her article is entitled Are we Prepared for the Shift Moving from the meta-story of individualism towards deeper and broader consciousness?" A little bit about Terry. She's an MCC, that's Master Certified Coach for the International Coaching Federation, and an ACTC, which is the Team Coach designation. Right, Terrie?
Terrie Lupberger:Yes.
Garry Schleifer:Obviously, she's an Executive and Team coach who teaches Leadership and Coaching in Europe, Singapore and the US. How about Canada?
Terrie Lupberger:Nope, not anymore.
Garry Schleifer:Oh, that was in the past.
Garry Schleifer:Her best clients are those who realize that more of the same is a poor strategy for lasting change. Well said. Terrie's organizational experience, combined with ongoing studies in human development philosophy, along with her gently irreverent style, she offers a unique approach in helping clients reduce the self-perpetuated suffering in the workplace. I like that self-perpetuated. She's contributed works on leadership and coaching and will publish her own work, The Inner Work of Work, in early 2025. Terrie, thank you so much for joining us for this call.
Terrie Lupberger:Thanks for having me.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, now the Inner Work of Work. Is that for coaches or leaders, or both?
Terrie Lupberger:It's both.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah.
Terrie Lupberger:Yep, it's both.
Garry Schleifer:Awesome, and early 2025?
Terrie Lupberger:Well, it's starting to look more like May or June of 2025. This is my own personal Achilles heel but, it's coming eventually.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah. What inspired you to write this article? Metastory article.
Terrie Lupberger:That's a really good question. I think it's just the culmination of all the studying and work I've done over the decades now, and what I'm not only personally experiencing, but what I see clients experiencing too that we're at, what I call, the affect of stories running in the background, that maybe we're aware of it when we get our newsfeed and we look at it for five seconds and move on. But these are stories that are playing in the background that are really impacting how we feel about ourselves, how we see ourselves in the world, how we be with each other. So I just feel compelled that we need to kind of make them more visible. That's what I would say. I just want to make it more visible.
Garry Schleifer:Okay, acknowledge what's going on, because we get pounded with how many pieces of information every day and what is it? Janet Harvey loves to say that human knowledge is doubling every 12 hours now. So you know.
Terrie Lupberger:And yet we're a mess.
Garry Schleifer:Well, it's human knowledge. But you know one of my clients, a lot of my clients their concern is that they're having difficulty staying on top of everything that they need to be experts in because it just keeps changing so fast and with AI, we've just probably replicated probably every 12 minutes now. Yeah, so how do you see this meta story shaping us?
Terrie Lupberger:Well, there's more than one, and what I mean by that are just all the, I call these are the narratives that you can see from the balcony. So there's us going about our everyday life and we're taking care of business. We're kids and families and work, and so we're doing kind of life things. But then there, when you go up onto the balcony, my metaphor for it is that there are kind of narratives or faint songs in the background that also impact us. Like you know, for me, everybody knows that we are sort of in a story of more as human beings, that more is the answer. More of anything.
Garry Schleifer:Okay.
Terrie Lupberger:More money, more profit, better position. More is and we're living on a resource finite planet, so we immediately have a conflict there.
Garry Schleifer:Wow, good point.
Terrie Lupberger:This is early in, but let's go be controversial. It's not really controversial, but notice that one of the shadow sides of coaching could be, I'm not saying it always is, but could be that we're supporting our clients to get the more. So it's one of those polarities that we're trying to hold is, you know, I don't want to deny you your love or passion for starting that nonprofit or getting that promotion, and can you be aware that we're living on a resource finite planet that we're all sharing? So how do you play with that? And I think that's the level that coaching should be at.
Garry Schleifer:Wow, how so? How do coaches reshape their brains or reshape the methodology in order to see and understand the story and and the fact that ? Like a conflict like there's so . in there?
Terrie Lupberger:I know, I know, I know, I know, let's go. Let's it right Right away.
Terrie Lupberger:Well, and that's only one of the meta stories. We're still kind of in the hangover of what I've said in the article, which is kind of the Cartesian framework, where we still privilege logic and analytics and rational thinking, which is useful, but that's not really how human beings do life. We're messy and we're emotional and that's not the only way to know or understand something, right? So that's another meta story. We also have a big meta story of separation. We really have it wired up that we are separate from each other.
Garry Schleifer:That's true.
Terrie Lupberger:Right, and so you take the "I'm separate from you, I'm separate from the planet. There's even a story for some people that human beings are at the apex of the kingdom, and so we have dominion over, as opposed to being equal with the trees and the animals and the water sources, and so when you're separate and you think you're in charge and your goal is to have more, you can see how that kind of sets up some of the mess we're in.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, no, exactly, exactly.
Terrie Lupberger:It's not too philosophical
Garry Schleifer:Well, no, I mean and you say it very, very eloquently in the article. We are emotional, spiritual, kinesthetic and interconnected and yet we don't operate or look for that in our lives.
Garry Schleifer:We're isolated. I still remember that somebody did something and if you take a look and you say I, but if you look at the rest of your hand, that's everybody else, right, like we're interconnected. These are all the other people in the world that are supporting you. We wouldn't exist or move forward it wasn't for all the interconnectivity that we have.
Terrie Lupberger:So you had asked, "So how do we coaches learn about this? Well, we need to learn, right. I will also say that I think it's really important that coaches like, if you want to be a fabulous master coach, just good at your craft, forget you're trying to get a credential or a designation, but you just want to be good at your craft and at service to humanity. I don't think taking another coaching program is the answer. I think that's useful, but you need to go out and learn philosophy and sociology and neuroscience. There's so many things to learn about what it means to be human, and I think that's kind of what coaches are called to learn.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so many things. Like I think the same thing and I'm on the border of I have enough hours and everything to do the MCC. So I'm restarting, because I kind of started it this year but I'm renewing my PCC and I'm going into MCC next year. So I've got one side of me is meeting the, you know, the competencies and for the credential. But the other side of me is is truly looking at so what does it mean to be a coach in mastery? And I don't say at mastery. I say in mastery because I see it as a journey, an ongoing journey, and I can see how lit up you are. You've obviously done all of this work and look forward to doing more of this work versus a certificate or stuff like that. What's something that really resonates for you? That you did. That really had an impact on your life as a coach.
Terrie Lupberger:Wow, so much. I don't know how I could name just one.
Garry Schleifer:Well, go ahead, give us a few.
Terrie Lupberger:I've just had so many wonderful teachers and I was probably born this way. I love our profession when we do it well, and I love the possibility that coaching is, which is why I got started in the first place with it. I was working at the Treasury Department in Washington DC and had been there for 14 years when coaching kind of came onto my plate and I went oh my gosh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. So I've been intrigued and excited by the possibilities ever since.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah.
Terrie Lupberger:I just I think it's such a potentially brilliant way to help raise humanity and suffering. I'm going to use that word and suffering, because, you know, so much of our suffering we create ourselves. I mean, we go around in the world expecting them or it to be different and we suffer with that expectation.
Garry Schleifer:Suffering. What is the saying? Suffering is an option.
Terrie Lupberger:Yes, it is so anyhow.
Terrie Lupberger:I came into coaching early and then I I've just studied all kinds of things. There's a beautiful organization called the Work that Reconnects and it's by, oh, Joanna Macy and it's talking about how we can continue to build connection with each other, especially in these crazy times. So that's one organization. Alan Watts, an old teacher. You may remember him from gosh what the 50s and 60s. I still listen to his recordings about what it means to be human. So I'm just really fascinated by that. What does it mean to be a human being? And if we're not talking about that in coach training, up your game people.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, exactly, and you do mention some things in there. You know, when I was reading the article and you speak about this, but this existential conversation. Right away I started thinking of how many clients I have that are clients and people I know who aren't in touch with their purpose, and you've expanded that to purpose, meaning and authenticity. So how can coaches prepare themselves to support clients in exploring these deeper dimensions?
Terrie Lupberger:Right, well, awareness. That's always the key. I have to be aware. Oh, I don't really know what meaning and purpose is. I don't know what it is for me, so let me go and research and learn and study and be in conversation around that. It's funny as soon as you said purpose, because I have a very funny relationship to purpose. I'll never forget, this was probably 20 years ago and I was running a coach training school and we had someone come teach us about purpose and this teacher's point was that you only have one and somehow it's your work to find it and if you don't find it, like poor you. And I remember going no.
Garry Schleifer:How could that be possible? When you say it, it just doesn't sound right.
Terrie Lupberger:Oh. So what is that? And maybe it's not finding something in here, maybe it's sort of how you answer what the world is asking of you, what the universe is calling forth from you. I don't know, but be curious about it. What is meaning? One of the things I do believe that separates us from other species is that we do look for meaning, human beings. We make meaning. Sometimes good and sometimes not so good, but we make meaning. And so, you know, we're finding ourselves with that kind of innate drive to want to have our lives matter. And yet we're sitting in systems within systems, within systems where I want to say what we thought, they're just breaking down. Let me put it that way.
Terrie Lupberger:Like our systems are breaking down and so what is meaning for me now in a system in the meta narratives of climate change and AI disruption and wars, and yes, disharmony.
Garry Schleifer:Climate change.
Terrie Lupberger:All of that. So where do I, how do I make my meaning inside of that? And it's not like we have an answer. But aren't the questions beautiful and can a coach hold that and support people to be in that, to face it?
Garry Schleifer:Well and you started off, it really resonated. One part, e verything resonates today. You're amazing to talk to. Is what do we make purpose and meaning mean? What's our interpretation? And then what does it mean to others? It's one of my favorite questions because when I'm with clients, I have to keep reminding myself I can't say that what I think purpose means is the same for them. I'll give an example of my mom. Every once in a while, she's 92, she gets into a conversation about why am I here, what's my purpose? And it turns out that that what takes that edge away from her is being with other people of her own age and going and being involved in activities and things like that. So she has a lot of life left in her, I can tell, and get making suggestions and she's like that sounds like a good idea and so she's playing with it, but I have no idea what purpose means to her. To her it's purpose is because? Because she's no longer in a relationship. My dad passed five years ago, so she doesn't have that anymore. She lives alone, but she has all of these people so she socializes with. so perhaps purpose, is to be social and contribute and have conversations with people. It should be as simple as that.
Terrie Lupberger:be and look, here's another kind of meta narrative that's playing out, especially I would say, over here in the North American continent is continent, you reach a certain age, you're supposed to retire, and then you're supposed to go and enjoy yourself, right, golf or tennis or .
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, oh, thank you for reminding me of that one.
Terrie Lupberger:And you're kind of done. Now that narrative is really starting to change, if you've noticed, and people are going wait a minute, I've got a lot of life left in me. How do I want to contribute? What do I want to do with the hours and years that I've got left, and that's a relatively new story. So stories can change. That's the good news.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, well, I'll tell you my own story is I recently, I don't know if you get the Notes from the Universe, Mike Dooley, I think it is yes. And he, in one of them he said oh well, I just turned this age. And somebody said to me when are you going to retire, etc. And he said, well, first of all, if I stopped and thought, well, how long do I plan on living? Plan on living okay, or expect to live, I think he said plan. And he said, well, I think I'm going to live till x, and that's still another 25 years, so why would I want to stop doing what I'm doing? And I, right away, I grabbed onto that. And, because longevity is a thing in my family, but even if it wasn't, I've created a vision of thriving beyond 105.
Terrie Lupberger:Wow, wow.
Garry Schleifer:Right. So that just leaves it wide open. And with the way things are going, I mean newer generations apparently are not going to live as long as we are, but I plan on living that long, and my mother's an example and the more I rah-rah for her. But I think to just wrap up that story is I love what I do, so I don't consider it work. So when others are retiring, I'm like, okay, I don't work, so I can't retire from it. So basically, maybe I've been retired for a long time, I didn't even know, but I don't fit into that story, that paradigm, and I'm a contributor to shifting that conversation.
Terrie Lupberger:Yep, and there will be people who have worked in a desk job for 35 - 40 years and they really just want to go play golf and play tennis. Yay.
Garry Schleifer:Yay.
Terrie Lupberger:And if they're happy and putting out that happiness vibe, then that's contributing.
Garry Schleifer:Yes, yeah, exactly. I work a lot with my clients, I think you alluded to something along these lines, it's that we want more, more, more. And I've been contributing to the conversation with my clients and saying you know, the grass is not just greener on the other side. The grass is greener where you water it. And then all of a sudden they're like oh, so I don't have to go for more or I don't have to leap over to the other side of the fence. I said, no, that's a choice you can make. You can do both. You can water both sides of the fence and you can enjoy this, and you just see the peace that the letting go of like oh, they never thought it was possible to not keep moving forward.
Terrie Lupberger:Well, that's part of the narrative that's just embedded everywhere in our societies. That's the definition of a life well lived is to go for more. The promotion, the CEO, the board, and if that brings you joy, yay, and I just see a whole lot of people for whom that's not bringing a lot of joy.
Garry Schleifer:Exactly. Well, we brought up a lot of examples today.
Garry Schleifer:How about one more about how coaches are integrating this messiness of being human?
Terrie Lupberger:Well, like how they learn to integrate it, or?
Garry Schleifer:How we're embracing this complexity?
Terrie Lupberger:Yes, Well and I love that word, because I do think we're much more complex systems than we're actually taught or the stories tell us. So I do think there's just layers and layers and layers of complexity. So for a coach, you need to understand that and embrace it. And I know I'm not answering your question, but just before I lose that thought, I think one of the things that happens these days.
Terrie Lupberger:I think one of the most important things coaches can do is to challenge every belief they have. Because every belief limits what else is possible. I have now arrived to this belief. Where do I go from there? Yeah, I've now arrived to this belief. Where do I go from there? So, challenge the heck out of your beliefs which is not easy to do by yourself.
Garry Schleifer:Well, well, you know, I have a great example, because there's someone on our team that has moved from one country to another just because it was like there are no boundaries and why not? Right, yeah, and so it's really encouraging to see someone, very early on in life, just taking the bull by the horns and saying why not?
Terrie Lupberger:Yeah, why not? Great question. Why not?
Garry Schleifer:Why not?
Terrie Lupberger:What if and why not?
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, exactly. You also suggested in the article that coaching has the potential to drive societal transformation. What do you think needs to change in the coaching profession?
Terrie Lupberger:Oh, that's a good question.
Terrie Lupberger:So I have this metaphor that might be useful that I talk about, which is you know, when coaching first came on the scene, it was like the trailblazers. It was the Wild West.
Garry Schleifer:I was there for this, got on board right at the beginning.
Terrie Lupberger:And then, as with any profession, any industry, then you have your settlers come in. And so now we've got our boundaries and our rules. We've got all of this. Useful and I think it's time for disruption again because I think we've somehow mainstreamed coaching, which is great, because people are making a livelihood at coaching. But in the mainstreaming of coaching, what are we leaving out? What else is possible because we've put so many kind of boundaries and rules around it. So I think we're ripe for disruption again. The other example I have is you know, remember Apple? They were the most innovative company. They came out with the Mac. Whoa, that's mind blowing.
Terrie Lupberger:And then we had computers, handheld computers and phones and then we could talk on our watch to people. And now just notice, they've kind of gotten pretty mainstreamed and now we have new versions of things.
Garry Schleifer:Right.
Terrie Lupberger:But we don't have the same level of innovation, and I think that happens. So it's not a criticism, as much as it happens. It happens in any profession. So I think we have to be bolder in the story we're telling. I think we need a new narrative as coaches, about what's possible. I don't have definitive how to's around that, but I think we've got brilliant minds. Let's get together and talk and figure out how do we be bolder cause the world is demanding, calling for us to be bolder.
Garry Schleifer:Well, and it leads us to the question, or to like not the question, to the development of us as coaches to stand out when democratization of coaching with coaching platforms and AI and things like that. I mean, I'm one of them, so I'm about to launch my AI Coach Garry, and that supplements my regular coaching. But how do we distinguish difference? It's interesting. When you were speaking about that, I was reminded of an article that is in the same issue by David Drake about competencies. How did you say about coaching? It's not standardized. But anyway, the world now knows what coaching is, what they can expect, mainstreaming and we need that.
Garry Schleifer:It's like we need to know that a car does this. So we've mainstreamed the car from a horse and buggy. Now we can get all the different versions and go for what we want. What he's suggesting is exactly that. The mainstreaming has led us to the competencies and acquiring and managing within the competencies, but he's added an additional conversation that relates to what you're saying about the five masteries. So in there he speaks almost identically to what you're saying. Maybe we should get the two of you together. It requires a different mindset, a different like, go back to all the points that you made earlier about the complexity and the messiness and what your journey has been and what our journey is like. Get interested in the human being. In the human being. Yeah, in the being of human beings.
Terrie Lupberger:Exactly. Exactly. Yes, and I like that idea of bringing the voices together that say all right so how do we get this? So now people know that they're driving a car. But what's the conversation that could make this even more impactful for societal change? And I don't think it's going to be another competency or certification program. It's not that useful and it's not that.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, a beingness.
Terrie Lupberger:eingness in action, because I think action is important. We are gifted with the ability, as human beings, to take action, to take care of what matters to us. Let's not discount that.
Terrie Lupberger:So it's not just You know, I'm going to go sit . a rock until I do that, and to. Right To take care of what really matters.
Garry Schleifer:. Wow, wow. . Wow so much. What would you like our audience to do as a result of the article? What's that bigness action you'd beingness like them to take?
Terrie Lupberger:Here's another meta story that we're kind of in that I write about in my book, which is we tend to think of action in a certain way. Like it's laborious or you have to effort. I think that's a hangover from the old Puritan days. Hard work and I go, "What if it was effortless action? The action that you're taking is so in line with your values and what matters to you that it's effortless in a sense. It's not hard work, it's effortless.
Terrie Lupberger:What a concept, right?
Garry Schleifer:In alignment with your purpose and meaning.
Terrie Lupberger:With yeah, and let's get rid of that word purpose.
Garry Schleifer:I know, because it conjures up all kinds of questions.
Garry Schleifer:You talk about Puritan and conformity. It should be in the conversation so that it can be observed differently and questioned.
Terrie Lupberger:Yes, exactly, well said, yeah, yeah. So what can coaches do? Just go learn, go be curious about everything, challenge your beliefs, be in conversation with other coaches that can support you. You know, like you said, one of my strengths is what I call gentle irreverence.
Garry Schleifer:Right, yep, I love that.
Terrie Lupberger:Right, so I want to really challenge how you see. I want to challenge how we see, because how we're seeing is sort of driving us to create what we've created which isn't working for a lot of people on the planet and a lot of species on the planet. So I want to us to challenge that. Always with love. I got to say that. Always with love, right.
Garry Schleifer:That's who you are big time. Yeah, thank you. So that's great.
Garry Schleifer:You know, I want to pause on that, I don't want to rush through that. Thinking of all of that you just said and who we are, and I'm just taking a moment to water the grass in my mind of where I want to and I've conjured up all kinds of things, and one of the things that I know personally is that I want to experience more things, and so I started this project where, and it just coincidentally is 52 weeks. It's not consecutive, but 52 weeks away, by invitation. So I'm looking for people to invite me to spend a week with them, either with them where they are or at some event or stuff like that, and I get so much out of just being with people and observing the world, like being more on the road than on the balcony in this case. Right, but you know, picturing trips to Scotland and Antarctica, and mine are a lot of travel being things, and for me, I would be experiential human beingness.
Terrie Lupberger:Yes, yes, yes, I totally get. And there's a way to be on the balcony when you're doing all that, because you could go, like so many people that I've been on vacation with, and they've got the maps and they've got their devices and we have to go here and it's like what if I experienced, without needing to name it or label it.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, it's like these calls give it a framework, but go wherever it goes inside the container.
Garry Schleifer:I love to say to people go get lost. Yeah, like go get lost. Oh my gosh, the things you find, the gems, are all not on those maps or Waze or whatever you're using. They're, yeah, let those maps go.
Terrie Lupberger:And then let's go get lost in life. You don't even have to leave your your desk, so to speak. How do I get lost? And which means I don't reach for those old, predictable stories and beliefs that I want to go to to make some sense out of my life. I'm going to get lost.
Garry Schleifer:I love it. Yeah, well, we should plan to get lost together one day. Maybe we did today right in our journey. Terrie, thanks again. What's the best way for people to reach you if they'd like to contact you?
Terrie Lupberger:I'd probably go to my website. There's a contact page there and I also have offered a free chapter from my upcoming book there. So it's terrielupberger. com T-E-R-R-I-E-L-U-U-P-E-R-G-E-Rcom.
Garry Schleifer:And as they say in the podcast on the videos if you're watching, click below.
Terrie Lupberger:Except I don't have anything below.
Garry Schleifer:We'll let our team do that.
Garry Schleifer:So thank you very much. Thanks so much. What a great conversation, great article. Really appreciate your contribution to choice listeners and readers and to the coaching profession. We know your impact, so thank you.
Terrie Lupberger:Thank you.
Garry Schleifer:That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app, probably the one that brought you here in the first place. If you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine, you can sign up for free by scanning the QR code in the top right-hand corner of our screen or, if you're listening, go to choice-online. com and click the sign up now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.
Terrie Lupberger:Thanks again, Garry. Bye.