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Episode 129: Unlocking Coaching Connection: Embracing Relational Questions and Overcoming Loneliness with guest, Carrie Sackett

• Garry Schleifer

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Transform your coaching practice by embracing the power of relational questions with our esteemed guest, transformational coach Carrie Sackett. Discover how shifting from a 'me' mindset to a 'we' mindset can tackle the societal crisis of loneliness, leading to deeper connections and personal growth. Carrie shares fresh insights and tools that challenge traditional individualistic approaches, offering a new perspective on fostering relationality in coaching. You'll gain valuable strategies to reconnect with clients and enhance engagement, making this episode a treasure trove of innovative ideas for anyone eager to elevate their coaching game.

Explore the profound impact of group work in overcoming self-doubt and loneliness, as we discuss a compelling case of a professional who transformed his self-perception through the support of a group. Carrie illuminates the pervasive "me culture" and its role in feelings of inadequacy and isolation. By engaging in group settings, individuals can build emotional resilience and gain new perspectives, while confronting imposter syndrome and the fear of judgment. Learn about social therapeutics, a revolutionary approach that redefines human dynamics, echoing a shift from traditional to quantum sciences. This episode promises to equip you with the conceptual tools necessary for fostering growth and connection in your coaching practice.

Watch the full interview by clicking here.

Find the full article here.

Learn more about Carrie Sackett here.

Carrie has a couple of amazing offers for the choice Magazine listeners:

  • The first 2 people to contact Carrie (carrie@zpdcoaching.com) and mention this podcast will receive free access to her training videos. (value = $80 and 3.5 hours instruction)
  • Everyone who contacts Carrie (carrie@zpdcoaching.com) by February 19, 2025  and mentions this podcast will be entered into a raffle. On February 21, 2025, one person will win one complimentary participation in Carrie's most popular training, Practicing Social Therapeutic Coaching. (value =  $650)

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Garry Schleifer:

Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features that you just won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer, and I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into the latest articles, have a chat with this brilliant author here right beside me, and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. Join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques and make a real difference in our clients' lives, because that's what we really want to do.

Garry Schleifer:

Remember this is your go-to resource for all things coaching, so let's dive in. In today's episode, I'm speaking with transformational coach Carrie Sackett, who's the author of an article in our latest issue What's Hot and What's Not ~ What is Influencing Coaching? Her article is entitled From Me to We ~ How Relational Questions Help your Clients Make Deeper Connections. A little bit about Carrie. She's held an MS and a PCC and, we're going to talk more about this one, I was reading this, is America's loneliness coach. We will ask about that. For more than 25 years, she's been practicing a transformational approach to emotional wellness and personal growth in the coach's chair and outside the coach's office as a Fortune 500 global change leader and award-winning employee engagement professional. She authored "Social Therapeutic Coaching ~ A practice guide to group and couples work" and founded the Center for Group and Couples Coaching to train coaches of all types with next generation tools that empower clients to transform their lives. That's a lot. Welcome, Carrie. Thank you for joining me today and thank you so much for writing the article.

Carrie Sackett:

Thank you, it was a pleasure and it's really exciting to see it on the page. I know we're going off, but it was nice to see.

Garry Schleifer:

Today's beyond the page because it went on the page.

Garry Schleifer:

That's right, that's right. Okay, so you know I got to ask. What do you mean America's Loneliness Coach?

Carrie Sackett:

Well, what I mean is that we are all suffering. We are all suffering from an atrophying of our relational muscles, capacity to connect with one another, and it's a societal crisis. It's a societal crisis, and yet what the experts are telling us is the way to solve it is to do these individual things like, you know, there's always the option to take a pill. Or they say, go talk to a stranger or join a club of something you're passionate about, and I love talking to strangers and I'm all for us doing things we're passionate about. However, methodologically, they're applying an individualistic, a me method to a we problem, and so I'm so glad that in the article, you really pulled out the shift from me to we, and we're going to talk more about that today, because that's what I work with on my clients is to develop that we lens, because that is the antidote to loneliness.

Garry Schleifer:

True that. Sounds very logical. So okay, and yet I was totally blown away by this concept, as if it were new. But what made you bring that forward?

Carrie Sackett:

Meaning the relationality concept?

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah.

Carrie Sackett:

Bringing it forward because it's both obvious on a cognitive level, like hey, we're all connected, we all live in the world together. However, on an experiential level, our culture is now so hyper individualized that we are always in our mental loop, in our heads and that's a me place and that's a dangerous place to be. It's undevelopmental, because we need others to help us grow, to help us in new ways, and we know that. I mean, we've chosen to be coaches, so we kind of know that. And, on the other hand, we need some new tools and new conceptual tools to really empower our clients to transform.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, really great and obviously from your experience and just what you were saying relationality is very important. But seriously it was a mind-blowing experience to read the article and have it really pulled out. So well, I can go so many different, but I want to know if, how does a a coach? When and why would a coach ask a relational question?

Carrie Sackett:

Yeah, that's a great question.

Carrie Sackett:

So first of all, maybe I'll say how I characterize what a relational question is, which is it's a question that connects people with each other by inviting them to give their experience in the moment, how someone is impacting on them or what's coming up for them emotionally. So these things are in the moment, which means they are not knowing questions that are inviting not knowing responses. Coaches, and I use these questions in two, from the client perspective, like if a client is leaving the room, I'm going to toggle between like individual, one-on-one examples and group examples. I do a lot of group work but in a one-on-one case, when the client kind of leaves the room, you know like maybe they're talking and talking and talking and talking, or you're like there was a shift and something happened and then they're off. They've kind of like changed the subject and they're they're talking about their aunt or their child and you've kind of lost that connection that you were experiencing with the client.

Carrie Sackett:

So those are moments to ask a relational question. Like for someone who goes on and on, well, are you curious about how I'm experiencing you in our session?

Carrie Sackett:

Client is like, oh, I never thought of that. Oh, that's right, you're right there. There you are, and as the coach, you're like, hey, we're doing this thing together. How do we want to be doing this together?

Carrie Sackett:

So that's one side of it and the other side is for us as coaches, it's a very powerful tool when we feel ourselves the pull to know or make assumptions or to try and fix the client, a way to not go there is to ask a relational question. How is it for you to be saying this to me, for example? Again, that's an individual example. In group work, boy, the relationality goes so many different directions. That's why group work is so powerful and I love it and I want everyone to get trained in leading life development groups that I train people in. The question might be what's it like for the group to hear so-and-so say this really hard stuff to us. That's different than feeling like I have to manage the group or manage people's emotions or try to fix something, or when, you know, when we have those pulls, as coaches, look out. So it's the same. We're inviting our clients to look out in those moments rather than in their heads. Same for us.

Garry Schleifer:

You know, I can't help but think of my experience in training and, of course, relational coaching and where you have this third entity. So it's not about you or them and what you're saying is it's like it's a slightly different version of that where it's the we and bring into that.

Garry Schleifer:

The fact that you drove that out and and wrote about it was very interesting, so I'm very thankful for that.

Carrie Sackett:

Yeah, yeah, you know, in the work I do with couples, I say to them I'm taking the side of the relationship, what does the relationship need? And it's similar in one-to-one work. I will ask clients all the time how are we doing? And I mean it sincerely. I really want to hear, however they're experiencing how we're doing. I want to create that space where they can say something hard, take that risk, because when clients develop those relational muscles with us as coaches, then they can go out in the world and exercise those muscles at work and in their relationships and at home and in their communities.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, wow, well said, thank you. You know, it goes to the point of what you said right at the beginning of the article. We're seeing more clients struggle with feelings of disconnection, imposter syndrome and, of course, the topic we started off with, loneliness, and so you're causing transformation. Give us an example of some other transformations you've seen as a result using relational questions.

Carrie Sackett:

Well, here's one and it's an, it's of , um, that breaking up of the And. So and this is a group-based example, it helps. So I hope so a woman in group young, ambitious, talented, sometimes she would. You know, my groups are all different ages, different walks of life, different things people want to work on. So she's providing leadership to the group, she says something strong to the group that's like deeply felt and very helpful to the group, and then she would freak out and be like, oh my god, I just provided leadership and then she'd get very humiliated. So, um, I would ask the group, what's experience of how she's . What's group, what's your experience of these last 20 minutes?

Carrie Sackett:

group members said their different experiences of her and you know some are, you know, really nice and sweet. Others are like, lovingly demanding, like man, you provide a lot of leadership and then you take off Like you . You these different perspectives and, um, hear it much more from peers than the coach, even though, co-creating, we are. We therapists, we are not the authority. But still, people hear it better from their peers. And then, like two months later, she wrote a note to the whole group and said I was out with my boyfriend, we were doing all these things I'd never done before, and whenever I started to feel humiliated, I thought of the group whenever I started and I got through it and I had a great time. Thank you, group.

Garry Schleifer:

Two months later. That's amazing.

Carrie Sackett:

yeah, it's very powerful.

Garry Schleifer:

No kidding. So I want to take a slightly different tact, but still with regards to what you said about, tell us about this work and imposter syndrome.

Carrie Sackett:

Sure, another story. Again, this is group work. Very, very talented, very successful, top of his field professional is in group and says to the group oh, you know, I'm just a teacher. And the group is asking questions, what do you do? This, that, and then again, how is the group experiencing so and so? And the group says, um, you're not just a teacher, you just told us you're this and this and this and this, and it really it helped him break out of that loop that I'm not good enough, whatever, to again have more. See, the thing about relationality is having that we are connected, we do impact on each other. Others do impact on on us. That's living the we life, if you will.

Garry Schleifer:

Yes.

Carrie Sackett:

And the me life which is our culture. Our culture is me culture, so it takes work. You can't even get out of it by yourself. We really need others to help us get out of it. The me culture is all the silly things I tell myself me, me, me, me, me, me. It's not a good, it's not healthy and it's not scientifically valid. We're not isolated individuals, even though that's how we get related to morning, noon and night. Yeah, that's how we get loneliness.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah.

Carrie Sackett:

We're being related to as isolated individuals and we better fix ourselves.

Carrie Sackett:

Oh my God. We can't do that, we need others. And when you need others, you want to include how are you experiencing me and I share with you how I'm experiencing you, and also when you do this, people build up their emotional resilience and they discover oh I can say something scary and awkward and hard. It's possible. You know the world's not going to fall apart and that's really important to be able to trust. We say it all the time in coaching, to be able to trust the process. We give our clients some new muscles so that they can go out in the world and trust the process.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, but that's a long journey. It doesn't just happen overnight, right? It takes a lot of work, a lot of experimentation, observation, things like that. I'm sitting here laughing thinking about the whole imposter syndrome, because you talk to people and they're like, well, I might have imposter syndrome, and then you talk to the next person, the next person. If they all just talk to each other and realize they all have the same thing, it's like poof, it would disappear, just like that, right.

Carrie Sackett:

I love that you're saying that.

Carrie Sackett:

That's my fantasy around loneliness is that we all walk down the street and say, hi, I'm lonely. I'm lonely because we're all lonely. Yeah kind of living in a lonely moment in a lonely world and why are we covering these things over. It makes it harder.

Garry Schleifer:

Well, and we're social beings. Why are we resisting being social and why are we hiding behind don't even get me started on hiding behind phones and social media and things like that, right? I mean the amount of times I hear now that people break up over cell phone, like by text, so they don't even have the courage to face each other. I think you've really touched on a really important thing. Huge amount of fear.

Carrie Sackett:

Yes.

Garry Schleifer:

Fear of being judged, fear of being attacked, fear of being thought less of, that sort of thing.

Carrie Sackett:

Yes, and again, that's why group work I'm so passionate about it and the kind of group work that all group work is fabulous, and the life development groups that I lead. It's a place where people discover that they can move through that. It's an environment created by the clients. It is what they make it, where they are trying new things and taking those risks and discovering that people are still there with them and, in fact, my groups are ongoing. I do short-term groups and then people are like wow this is fabulous.

Carrie Sackett:

It's like an emotional relational workout. It's like I go to yoga once a week. I want to come to a life development group once a week because this is a place in my life where I can exercise those muscles with people that I have come to care about and trust and trust that we can go through the process together and then it completely enriches their lives and again they take it out into wherever they go in the world.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, one person at a time. You know, it just still strikes me as so odd that this resonated so much with me, considering I'm in the relational industry of coaching, where I'm getting related to clients, establishing trust, rapport, awareness, connectivity, all this sort of stuff. And yet when I read this article and I greatly, greatly hope that everybody does read the article and can see that it's just it just makes the whole idea of relationality pop and offer some great opportunities to like in the call today, some of the questions that you're asking and the possibilities. So I don't know why I'm so amazed and yet I'm amazed.

Carrie Sackett:

Yeah. Well, I kind of have an answer. I'll ask you how it impacts on you. See, social therapeutics, what I practice, it's a break with traditional method. To put on the we lens, we need other conceptual tools. So that's what's coming through in the article, I hope because articles from traditional science.

Carrie Sackett:

Quantum physics broke with traditional science, and so relationality is a break with how we're used to seeing things. Traditional science is take an individual thing out of its context, study it objectively and then come up with immutable laws. Psychology took that method, and psychology, of course, influences everything, and it was great in its moment, but its moment was 140 years ago, so hopefully what's coming across in the article are these other kinds of new tools, new ways of seeing new conceptions.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, truly. Yes, I that landed 100%. That's exactly what it is. Thank you, and thank you again for writing it. I was like I was blown away. Blown away.

Carrie Sackett:

Thank you. I really appreciate the opportunity to share and teach and project and really make an offer to the broad coaching community. We are an innovative field and we are innovative people. That's our edge. Let's keep innovating.

Garry Schleifer:

We're still a young profession people. Carrie, what would you like our audience to do as a result of the article in this conversation? I hear you've got some treats.

Carrie Sackett:

Yes, thank you for asking. Okay, so I have two treats and they both involve emailing me and I'm going to say my email. Well, I'll say the treats first. Okay, so one is two people who email me will get free access to my training videos. I have about four and a half hours of training videos, so the first two people who email me get those for free, and then for everyone who sends me their email within two weeks of this episode airing, I'm going to create a lottery and somebody will win one free Practicing Social Therapeutic Coaching training which is like a $600 offer.

Garry Schleifer:

Oh, thank you so generous.

Carrie Sackett:

So now I better say my email address, right.

Garry Schleifer:

Yep, so slowly. Go.

Carrie Sackett:

Carrie C-A-R-R-I-E @ZPDcoaching. Z as in zebra, p as in Peter, d as in David coaching. com (Carrie@ZPDcoaching. com) and in Canada that's a zed, but that's just another story.

Garry Schleifer:

We're broadcasting globally and we understand that that's z in America and I'm helping the cultural change to say it's Zed Canada. Carrie, it is very generous of you, Carrie c-a-r-r-i-e at hold on Z-P-D coaching. com. I remember because you said zebra, Peter David.

Carrie Sackett:

Yes, Well great.

Garry Schleifer:

Right. So there you go, piece of cake. Thank you again, seriously, for writing and for being with me on this podcast today. I love taking it beyond the page and you were just so delightful in doing so and joining me in that. Thank you.

Carrie Sackett:

Thanks, Garry.

Garry Schleifer:

That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app, probably the one that got you here in the first place. If you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine and you're watching this episode, you can sign up for free by scanning the QR code in the top right corner or go to choice-online. com and click the sign up now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.

Garry Schleifer:

Thanks again, Carrie.