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Episode 130: Unlocking Coaching Innovation: Neuroscience Insights and Emotional Effectiveness with guest Ann Betz
Unlock the transformative potential of neuroscience and coaching with Ann Betz, a leading figure at the intersection of brain science and human change. Join us as Ann illuminates the path to heightened consciousness with her vibrant passion for the ever-evolving world of neuroscience. Together, we debunk the myths surrounding the triune brain theory and dive into the nuanced role of the amygdala, all while emphasizing the necessity of curiosity and caution in a field teeming with "bright, shiny objects."
Explore the intricate tapestry of human emotions through the seven levels of effectiveness, a framework that spans from hopelessness to synchronicity. Rather than boxing individuals into categories, Ann encourages us to recognize the richness of human experience and its impact on emotional regulation and workplace innovation. With insights from neuroscience, we delve into how setting aside the ego can lead to groundbreaking innovation, fostering an environment where creativity thrives.
Embark on a journey of self-discovery and integration as we discuss the delicate dance of realization, regulation, and stabilization in coaching. Ann shares her mastery in navigating values conflicts through coaching, highlighting the journey towards unconscious competence. From the power of empathetic listening to the simple joys found in everyday moments, like watching "The Great British Baking Show," this episode reveals how consistent, kind actions pave the way to a more fulfilling life.
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Find the full article here.
Learn more about Ann Betz here.
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Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching where we're bringing you amazing insights and in-depth features you just won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer, and I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into the latest article, have a chat with this brilliant author behind it and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. When you have a chance, join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share tips and techniques and make a real difference in our clients' lives. Remember, this is your go-to resource for all things coaching, so let's dive in.
Garry Schleifer:In today's podcast, I'm speaking with International Speaker and Trainer, Ann Betz, who's the author of an article in our latest issue "what's Hot and What's Not? What is Influencing Coaching?" Her article is entitled Coaching Consciousness how Neuroscience Helps Coaches Do More, which is what we want to do. A little bit about Ann. She's a PCC and a CPCC, along with me, me, me, me. We took the course together. She's the co-founder of Be Above Leadership and an international speaker and trainer on the intersection of neuroscience, coaching and human transformation, including Be Above's flagship program, Neuroscience, Consciousness and Transformational Coaching. In the fall of 2023, she launched a new program for coaching. com on the fundamental neuroscience of coaching. Ann is the lead author of Integration - The Power of Being Coactive in Work and Life, as well as as groundbreaking white paper on the neuroscience of the International Coaching Federation coaching competencies. That was a mouthful, and she's also an internationally published author in choice, the magazine of professional coaching, which is also international.
Ann Betz:Many, many times, which is always a delight.
Garry Schleifer:Exactly. Well thank you so much for joining me today, Ann. It's funny because Ann and I go way back. She and I did a co-active certification program together back in. I don't know.
Ann Betz:2002.
Garry Schleifer:Two, that's what I thought.
Garry Schleifer:But you know, Ann, that this January of 2024 will be my 24th anniversary of my first training in coaching.
Ann Betz:Wow.
Garry Schleifer:24 years.
Garry Schleifer:We've been around for a long time, haven't we?
Ann Betz:I know it's amazing and I mean I know this is totally off topic, but maybe it isn't off topic. The coaching profession, I'm like magpie, bright, shiny object. What else can I do? And what has been really lovely about finding coaching for me in 2001, fall of 2001, is that it's enabled me to continue to grow and stretch within a container. So, instead of, you know, just going really broad on a lot of things, I've been able to go deep in this area and deepen my ability as a coach but still be interested in lots of other things like neuroscience and consciousness.
Garry Schleifer:And it is a huge container and it just never gets any smaller. We get off in tangents and you know, the AI is popping in and more neuroscience and things like that. So thank you for being an active part in all of it. And to me it's like that's funny that you get distracted by shiny objects cause you've been like the go-to person on neuroscience and you just like you're like that's who I want to talk to about neuroscience, right, one of the leaders in that area so thank you.
Ann Betz:Well, thank you, and I think part of that is because neuroscience is a whole collection of bright, shiny objects. You know I've got books on Your Brain On Art, The Role of Compassion in Economics. Things like that. I can stay interested the rest of my life and I think that's what makes me a good expert is I'm always interested in the next thing that's coming, in validating have we been wrong about some things? Because we have in the human development world. And you know, I think it's really critical for anybody who's talking about neuroscience with any depth of knowledge that you have to be committed to staying very much on top of the research, because it's a fairly young field, which means research is going to be changing a lot, and it's sometimes I see people teaching a neuroscience thing but they don't have the curiosity maybe to stay like really up to speed on everything. You have, you just have to.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, well, and it must be tough, must be tough because there's stuff popping up all the time and you know we're also very thankful for the article you did in the issue on neuroscience and the myths, and you know so you you're referring lightly to that today and the things that people had thought were correct and just aren't correct. I don't even remember what they were. Do you remember what your favorite myth was?
Ann Betz:Well, I think one of my favorite. Sorry, we've got a little kitty visitor.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, never a problem.
Ann Betz:My favorite myth is this idea that we have a three-layer brain they call it the triune brain and that lower parts of our brain sort of take over and take us offline and really, if anything, it shows us the complexity. Our brain just is not that simple and our whole system is not that simple and so I'm really really careful not to say absolutes but to say plays a role in. So we've heard about an amygdala hijack. Well, the amygdala is very complicated. It plays a role in lots of things, including fight, flight or freeze, but not just that. But it's what is what kind of role is it playing? Not that it's in charge of this or my amygdala made me do it. So I've gotten much more, you know, hedgy about what I say.
Garry Schleifer:Hedgy versus edgy. Got it, oh, hedgy.
Ann Betz:I think anybody who's saying anything about the brain, who's giving you an absolute is probably. There are very few. There's not that many, just absolute in there.
Garry Schleifer:Oh, my goodness. Well, thank you for being a repeat author, repeat writer for choice. And you know, normally I say well, why did you decide to write this article? That's because I asked you to.
Ann Betz:I was going to say I was going to ask you why did you want me to do this article? Because this was one of the only times where it has really been you have come to me and said write that thing up. What was interesting to you?
Garry Schleifer:Well, first of all, I attended one of your webinars with yourself and Ursula and you spoke about this and it just it was so well and, of course, remember I had in my mind already a future issue, What's Hot and What's Not and so this was something entirely different to me, like I hadn't published anything about it. I'm sure it's out there, but this consciousness, and then your expansion to levels of consciousness, it just it just really resonated with me as something that I thought our readers and listeners should know about.
Ann Betz:I love that.
Garry Schleifer:And you were like on it and done and in my hands like in a couple of weeks.
Ann Betz:Well, because it's really a pleasure to write about, and I don't know where you want to go with the article, but you know, for me, one of the fundamentals is this idea that I am not coaching. I didn't enter this profession just to help people get more stuff or you know, whatever it is, this, and I like stuff.
Garry Schleifer:I like stuff too.
Ann Betz:I like stuff. I like money in my bank account, all of that, but that's not why I came into the profession. I have a bigger agenda around human beings which is, can we evolve? Can we truly transform? Can we kind of move to expanded capacities, not just to make business better but to make the world better? So that's always been there for me in various forms.
Ann Betz:And so you know, looking and saying, you know, I guess sort of you know why I started thinking about kind of a four step process for increasing consciousness. I don't know a better way to say it. It's not that clear or that easy. But when I started thinking about the factors that really influence a person being able to walk in the world in a way with real choice right and feeling like they can manage what gets thrown at them and stay present and grounded, is hugely effective, first of all, in terms of the stuff, getting what you want and it's also those are the sort of people that, you know, I think contribute to a more loving world.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, well, and we do, and okay, so that's an interesting. I never thought of that. So you knew and were aware of that when you first started coaching, whereas when I first started it, it was because I had worked with a human potential movement company called Landmark Education and they had a program and that program was a three month community project and you were assigned a coach and they were volunteers. So I learned about coaching as a supportive to accomplishing something in a way, or seeing what you're struggling with. What are the blocks and like that? I didn't get the whole transformation and the evoking awareness that I now have, right. So mine was more and I did start coach training because somebody came by that was not a volunteer, was getting paid to be a coach and I'm an entrepreneur first. So I said like, show me the money.
Ann Betz:I want that and I do. We used to talk about in coach training, I don't know if they still use this language, but sort of this "a" agenda and the "A" agenda. That the small "a" agenda might be get this project complete but the big A agenda is becoming a person who can complete projects. And so if I become a person, if I integrate all of that and become a person who doesn't, I'm talking about myself right now. I'm thinking about, you know, like the story that I had about myself about not being able to complete things and you know, and so getting coaching around that it wasn't, you know. Yes, there were some steps, but what was more important was the internal shift, so that that conversation doesn't limit me anymore. But I can shift around that and see myself as a person who can complete things, rather than just okay, we checked something else off, you got that done. Yay, you're happy you paid me as a coach. I don't want that. I want my clients to develop.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, yeah, and I think to a person I think we pretty much all do. Once you've really got like, can you imagine now going back and doing that first week or weekend or whatever it is that we all did back in the day and how wide eyed and like just the potential, let alone. Like we could just couldn't go into the world the same way.
Garry Schleifer:It was just like, wow, somebody turned the lights on. Well, yeah, I want to go back to our topic, which is consciousness, and a reminder to our listeners that despite Ann and I's ability to go down rabbit holes, the article is called Coaching Consciousness ~ How Neuroscientific Coaches Do More Now. So, for those that are listening and have not read the article, it's stated by Ann in the article that we're talking about what it is and what it isn't. I'm going to quote here. "Some have settled on the idea that fundamental consciousness is the awareness of our awareness, and the scientific exploration is focused on finding the seat of this awareness, as if it were an on-off switch." But Anne suggests that we ponder consciousness not as an on-off switch but instead as more in terms of levels of consciousness. So take us down the path of where you started and where you ended up, because it's brilliant in here, absolutely brilliant.
Ann Betz:Oh wow.
Ann Betz:Well, so the idea of levels of consciousness comes out of, basically, consciousness research, which would be people like Dr David Hawkins, Ken Wilber, Margaret Wheatley, people who are looking at, really looking at being, I would say. You know what is the being that creates certain outcomes? And so I got really interested in that many, many years ago, and my business partner, Ursula, and I have created a model we call The Seven Levels of Personal, Group and Organizational Effectiveness, and they're a bit of a map of sort of saying you know, what does it take? That's what this article is a little bit more like. What does it take to go to a higher level? And I always get a little tripped up here, because in this Western culture in particular, we have higher is better. You know, this is better than that. You know, I took the little quiz and I'm of higher consciousness. Well, you know, probably not.
Ann Betz:I, you know, don't ever want this to be used to label people or create dichotomies, because the truth of the matter is we're human and we carry it all with us. We carry it all. We carry the depths of despair and we carry the lightness of feeling connected to everyone. We are all part of all of it, and one of the things we teach, you know, when we're teaching this model of the seven levels is that it is inclusive.
Ann Betz:This is not about I don't like you when you're in a bad mood, you know right. It's about how do I include that, how do I be present to it, what is it there to teach me? And can I, and this is one of my points, can I regulate myself so that even if I'm really angry or really afraid or really upset, I am regulating internally or maybe with a close friend, so that I'm not spreading that out everywhere. So I feel people have an absolute right to be angry about things. I don't feel like they have a right to go punch people's cars or walls or anything like that.
Garry Schleifer:So thank you. So why don't you take us on a jaunty little ride through the different levels and then, of course, tell us if you have a favorite?
Ann Betz:Oh my gosh. So the levels are not. I did not break down the levels in the article, so I can take a really quick, I can do a really quick overview of them, our seven levels of effectiveness. We start at the bottom and we go from hopelessness to fear to frustration and we call those are the three below the line levels. And just to emphasize again, they're human, they're very human and they're not to be sort of shoved aside, because it's not a nice thing. As I see people increase in consciousness, if we can really say that, one of the things that I really see, Garry, is I feel like they have more compassion for themselves and more ability to be with the part of themselves that's afraid or even hopeless sometimes. So then, above the line, we have courage, engagement, innovation and synchronicity, and these are just words that we grab. You know, you could just call them by the numbers, and each one includes everything below.
Ann Betz:So when you ask me if I have a favorite, I don't know if you remember back in our consulting days, the seven hats process. Did you ever do that?
Garry Schleifer:Oh my goodness, yeah, I remember.
Ann Betz:Yeah, and you know that's not this. That's seven different perspectives on something. The seven levels is an increase in energy. So it's not like I say to myself, oh, in this moment I'm feeling like I'm pretty much in engagement, but I need some courage energy. I'm going to put the courage hat on. It's not really like that, because if you're in engagement, you've already got courage. You're standing on top of that. So it's always for me is, you know, my favorite level is as high as I can go. I don't know any human on the planet who really walks in the highest level, even though we all want to get an A.
Garry Schleifer:Higher, higher Western culture, higher.
Ann Betz:Higher and good but what I have noticed is that when I am working with people in. So the above the line is courage, engagement, innovation and synchronicity. When I'm working with people in engagement and innovation in those levels and we've done a lot with neuroscience to kind of map the neuroscience to this, you know to say what's happening in the brain that is enabling people to be at that level. When I'm working there, the work is easy, it's quick, it's fun.
Ann Betz:I don't dread the meetings on my calendar and we get stuff done because particularly in our level of innovation, we can put my website up if people want to see more about what these are, you're not attached to the outcome. Well, what better way to get truly innovative ideas than if you set your ego aside?
Garry Schleifer:Right.
Ann Betz:Why don't we have more in the world? Because we have too many egos that cannot be set
Ann Betz:I'm not saying get rid of it. I like my ego, you know it serves a purpose but set it aside.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah. So, yeah, and it's funny. And the word absolutes that you mentioned earlier for yourself comes up when you speak about egos.
Ann Betz:Yeah, absolutely yeah, crazy.
Garry Schleifer:Crazy. Well, thank you for sharing that and uh, later on we'll give you a chance to mention the, well, just mention the website now.
Ann Betz:It's yeah, my company is Be Above Leadership and the website is just BE ABOVE, be above, be above it, Be Above Leadership. Be above that line on the seven level above the line. Try to operate from there. You won't be doing as much damage in the world and like that.
Garry Schleifer:Be baoveL eadership. com and is there a forward slash or is it right on the home page you can figure it out?
Ann Betz:If you just look on the home page, you'll see Seven Levels.
Garry Schleifer:Awesome wow, hey, we got more than we bargained for. We were going for the consciousness, and we got right to the seven levels. Let's go.
Ann Betz:Well, yeah, and I didn't bring them because that would be an article in and of itself and what I really wanted to look at, and that's just one roadmap. Other people may have a different way they think about an increase in their effectiveness. I'm not attached that this is the best one in the world, it's just the roadmap to use. To say, well, if I want to increase my consciousness sort of like if you and I are in the mall and we want to find the cashmere sweaters- because I want to find the cashmere sweaters we can't probably go to Ace Hardware right.
Garry Schleifer:Exactly. Although we've got some nice lady stuff there, I must say.
Ann Betz:But anyway, you know, it's like trying to think of something like Kohl's, but everybody probably has cashmere these days. Anyway, if I really want you know, you have to know where you are and get a sense of where you are without shame with knowing this is part of the human experience and this is where I am but where I want to go is to a place where I feel more at peace, more present and more effective, because I think all of our clients are longing for that. I mean, they want to be more effective.
Garry Schleifer:But they do want there. Once they get a taste of the evoking awareness part of it, then they're started like you know, and and yeah. ,
Ann Betz:It's just a little addictive, isn't it? Oh? What else can learn about myself? I want to tell you a funny story because this come under evoking awareness so let's talk about that. But I was on a plane sitting next to this nice young man and we got to talking and did not even have my coach hat on and I said something like oh, sound like integrity is really important to you and talked a little while longer. And I was like, well, you know you're really entrepreneurial, you know creativity must be a really important, you know, part of your life. So we exchange information and he emails me and he says I want you to do that thing you did with me, with my wife. Like, what did I do? I don't even know what I did that thing where you told me who I was.
Ann Betz:Really all I was doing was listening for his values and reflecting them back.
Garry Schleifer:And that's not coach like at all.
Ann Betz:I was bored that day, nothing else.
Garry Schleifer:Do we ever take it off? That's the thing. I think once it's on, I don't want it to go off, because I'm curious about people. It gets to a point, though, that they're like okay, could you tell me about you now?
Ann Betz:Yeah, I think that is. I have seen that. I remember that you know two coaches getting together and it's like, tell me about you. No, tell me about you. Do we know how to appropriately take up space?
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, exactly, equal it out.
Ann Betz:So the article that I wrote, if I can go there for sec.
Garry Schleifer:You know what? What a great idea.
Garry Schleifer:We are here to talk about the article, so why not?
Ann Betz:So we talked about these different levels of consciousness and lots of people are out there, you know, ranging from legitimate good trainings to cults, promising you you're going to have an increase in your consciousness. So lots going out there. Probably most coaches aren't saying that, and I really started thinking about what's required to take someone to a noticeable new level of, you know, maybe it is just personal peace like that. Like what's really required? And a couple of things really hit me from a lot of the stuff I was reading and studying was that in some ways. So I talk about the importance of realization, regulation, integration and stabilization. Because here's the thing, realization or awareness is great, but if you do nothing with it, you can be this wise. You know there's always the joke about the wise, you know, hermit up in the mountains who goes, you know, down into the busy marketplace with the beeping horns and gets pissed off. Right, you know, because you got to deal with life.
Garry Schleifer:Right.
Ann Betz:So you know this whole kind of saying, yes, awareness is important. We call it realization. Yes, the realization, oh my God, you know I'm nagging my children more than I should, or whatever it is, or I'm playing it safe at work, whatever that realization is. Or oh wow, authenticity is my biggest value and I don't feel I can do that in this workplace or family or relationship. Mind blown, right? Some of the stuff that our clients you know, when it just clicks in and, as the coach, you're going yeah really, really important.
Ann Betz:We don't get anywhere without it. Not sufficient. It's not what realization is just a part of the path.
Garry Schleifer:I know it's like getting people to the door and then not knocking. It's like, well, here you go, you got a little bit of awareness, but bye.
Ann Betz:Right, you know what are you going to do with that and how do you use that realization to come to a place of more, you know, more effectiveness? I'll just say like that. So I think then you know I looked at regulation. So regulation to me is I can have my emotion and work with my emotion without it causing major problems to other people. Now and that's different than you know reaching out to my best friend and going, I'm really just really, really so sad right now and you know, or your coach or whatever. This is more about in that moment can I bring myself back to center? Or you know part of what inspired this is I have a side hustle. I have a side- pertise in toxic people.
Garry Schleifer:A side- pertise got it.
Ann Betz:What is it? A sidepertise? That's awesome. I know way too much about it psychopaths, and cult leaders and people like that, narcissists. We teach a program around this. But, um, I started watching. You know I was watching some cult documentaries and you know the leaders of the cult were almost always dysregulated, unable to regulate themselves. This wise, amazing man who, if someone says or does the wrong thing, is coming down like a ton of bricks. Very, very common profile. Now, sometimes that's used by leaders to evoke a response they want, but sometimes I think it's just an inability to regulate, which I think I don't care what your realization is or what wisdom you think you have, if you cannot personally regulate, I am not following you. There is no excuse for that shit.
Ann Betz:That is not an enlightened person.
Garry Schleifer:Well, and then, by the way, go back to your seven levels. The ones that follow are the ones below the line? Right? would I guess right?
Ann Betz:I would say that a lot of those who start abusive groups, toxic groups like that, are very much below the line. I think a lot of followers come in for above-the-line reasons, because they're.
Garry Schleifer:Oh right, that's what they want, but that's not where they're at.
Ann Betz:That's not what's happening. No, I mean they're, you know, being diminished and abused, and you know there's no good.
Garry Schleifer:The marketing of what you're going to get
Ann Betz:Oh, yeah, yes.
Garry Schleifer:And where you are is down here.
Ann Betz:Oh yeah, yeah, and that's actually one of the key markers of a cult is that it's deceptive practices. Nobody tells you you're going to be working 60 hours a week for free for this group, you know, three months down the line. Because if they told you that going in, Hey Garry, how'd you like to come and do this before they sucked you in and use some mind control stuff, you'd be like no way.
Garry Schleifer:Right.
Ann Betz:So yeah, Deceptive practices.
Garry Schleifer:I know one of those, so.
Ann Betz:One of the hallmarks.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, integration?
Ann Betz:Yeah. So integration to me is this place of, it's probably all of these fit together. It's less a linear ladder or steps. Step one, step two. It's much more, probably sort of a very complicated Venn diagram of some kind. But you know, when we started looking at our seven levels, which I'll show you, they just look like that. A little seven levels backwards, and again, you can go on my website if you want to see what they are and more info about them. But I originally started studying neuroscience in 2011 because I wanted to see whether we could take neuroscience through this in some way, and I didn't have much info at the time. But probably the biggest thing we've seen in the last 13 years is that as you go more above the line, you become more integrated and you live more in this place of "and so and I can say more about what that means. You were going to ask me something.
Garry Schleifer:No, no, like, I'm like uh-huh.
Ann Betz:Uh-huh. Okay. So I think about integration and there's lots of different ways we can integrate. By the way, this comes from the brilliant thinker and writer and teacher, Dan Siegel. This is originally where we got this idea of integration came from him. But it's this place of saying I'm going to give you a personal example. So, on the one hand, I've got a pretty good eye for detail much of the time and I can be a little anal about website and communication and things like that. I can be a little anal. On the other hand, it's you know, I have a personal value of being kind and of having people continue to want to work with me.
Garry Schleifer:Shout out to Ursula. She's managed it.
Ann Betz:Oh, she knows. Believe me. So when I think about integration, it's for me, integration is one of the things that gives us more choice. So one of the things that I try to be consciously aware of is okay, how am I going to choose to respond here because that thing didn't work, but I also know this person is working really hard. So how do I integrate these two parts of me, you know? One of the things that I sometimes hear people excuse themselves for which is well, I'm just being real, you know the ones that are really harsh? Yeah, I'm just being authentic.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah.
Ann Betz:And what I would say is so you have no part of you that is kind. You have no part of you that is thoughtful, because if you're going to be authentic, you need to bring that part in as well. It's not authentic to just show one aspect of yourself because you have a habit of doing it Right. So I thought, oh, that's my new argument. I'm telling it like it is.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, I'm a realist.
Ann Betz:Yeah, it's not effective. It puts other people off, as we know. But when I think about integration, I'm always thinking of how am I balancing things? Am I tipping too far to one? Am I, you know, not bringing up an issue because I just want everybody to get along? I'm not Canadian, but I'm Minnesotan.
Garry Schleifer:Minnesotan, Minnesotan.
Ann Betz:Have I gone too far to that side or did I go too far to this picky anal part of me. Now what is the harmonious place where I can be at choice and, you know, work with someone l ike that. In the article, I talk about lots of different integrations and it definitely links to the other two things I've talked about so far. First of all, you have to have them in awareness. So, for example, Garry, if you have two values that seem to be, you know, maybe it's freedom and, you know, stability or something like that.
Ann Betz:Like I want to make more money, but I want to have more time off, kind of thing, right? So if you have those two values in conflict, you're not going to know they're in conflict unless you know they're your values first.
Ann Betz:So, that's the realization. Now the integration is ooh, let's get creative, really creative. How do you resolve this conflict? Because you're not going to be happy as long as you experience that kind of values conflict. But it might take more work and it might take more creativity.
Garry Schleifer:So that's the loop in the brain right now. There's a loop in the brain going how, what are my values again, and which one is like and yeah, so. No, thank you.
Ann Betz:Well, I think that's why all of these like amazing coaching conversations that we can have, you know, often are doing everything that I'm talking about. There realization. We're helping people become more regulated. We're helping people. What if you didn't have to choose? What if you could have both Like that? And then the very last one, just let me get that in real quick is and this was also something that I really realized in watching all of these cult documentaries was, I call it stabilization.
Ann Betz:So I am less interested in someone who goes away for the weekend and has an amazing mind-blowing experience, for whatever reason, than I am in someone who has been getting up every day and choosing to be kind, also choosing to speak their truth and finding a way forward with that. I have much more respect for the one where, if something really happens, they can ground themselves again. And I'm not talking spiritual bypass, I'm talking being present. Oh, that was really scary. I'm going to stay present. I'm not going to la la la, but I'm still here. I have so much respect for that and to me, that is stabilization. Do you remember the learning steps?
Garry Schleifer:Yes, Unconscious incompetence. That one? Unconscious incompetence, conscious incompetence, conscious competence and unconscious competence.
Ann Betz:Yes, well done, well done. Well I think about this stabilization ultimately as coming to a point where it is unconsciously competent, and I think about things like you know, like when I need to tell myself hold on a minute, you know, yes, you saw that typo, but that's not the main thing. I'm still in conscious competence around that. It's not automatic. I have to kind of tell myself and so, and I think for a lot of us, you know, the realization part brings some like conscious incompetence, like oh dear, you know.
Garry Schleifer:That's why, not being absolute, it's always a good safety, always a good guardrail
Ann Betz:And I also think, as we're thinking about all of these things, you're thinking about your realization, your regulation, integration, stabilization. It's to sometimes just we need to be able to take a beat more. So many times have I, you know, seen an email like last thing at night or first thing in the morning, and it's just sent my blood pressure up, and then I just let it sit and I realize it's not such a big deal and so I think we're in a false urgency. Everything has to be answered right away.
Garry Schleifer:Oh, because the sooner we get rid of it the more time we have for the next one which is pretty funny when you think about that.
Ann Betz:Right and if the response is something, this is really obvious I think probably to everybody. But if the response to if I get an email and I respond in a snippy way, what have I created that's now going to take time to clean up?
Garry Schleifer:Yeah.
Ann Betz:Whereas if I can do this self-regulation and we know through the process of it's one of the favorite words in neuroscience, neuroplasticity, the more I stop and tell myself to be honest and kind, for example, the more I do it at some point it'll just be automatic. I won't even have to think about it anymore.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah.
Ann Betz:Yeah.
Garry Schleifer:Unconscious competence.
Garry Schleifer:I love it.
Ann Betz:Unconscious competence in being a human, but in the article I do talk about things that coaches already do in each of the four areas because I think, to me, even if you don't change anything, this is an argument for coaching. I think we are helping people with all of these aspects and that is why, when we have a long enough engagement with a client, you know you work with the client, like if you have a client that you've worked with a year, a couple of years and you're just like I really get you're not actually quite the same person as when we started. You've had that right.
Garry Schleifer:Oh, big time. I've got one I have been coaching for 196 sessions.
Ann Betz:So 20, almost since the beginning, right, or I don't know how often you meet.
Garry Schleifer:Three years at once a week.
Ann Betz:Three years, but you're not meeting once. I'm thinking once a month.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, no, no no. Like just over three years.
Ann Betz:And what has been the, I mean no breaking confidentiality, but would you say, after three years and that many sessions of coaching, that they are a person who operates with more effectiveness, more peace and more just fulfillment in their lives?
Garry Schleifer:This person has always been effective, but I think the awareness, the realization has given peace and joy and in all areas of life and freedom too, and I know that that person is probably listening to this recording. They will know who they are.
Ann Betz:They'll know who they are
Garry Schleifer:Because they always make good choices.
Ann Betz:It's so interesting too. I was watching the Great British Baking Show.
Ann Betz:Some rerun.
Garry Schleifer:There is a cult, it's a sugar cult.
Ann Betz:I don't even eat wheat or sugar but I just find it so soothing and they're so nice to each other. But I was watching last night and whatever season we're on, there is a young woman who is doing really well, like she's got if you've ever watched it anybody. This young woman got like Starbaker three times in a row and then another time. She's like been Starbaker four times. You know it's insane. It's like they win that week.
Ann Betz:But what is interesting in watching her, sort of to your point about the peace and the joy of the realization, is it is almost physically painful to her to be told how good she is. You can even see her whole body just can't integrate that. Can I integrate what everybody else is telling me? Can I have that? That's another aspect of integration. Can I take, you know, can I take whatever you know critical feedback and look to see if there's anything useful there? But can I take the, you know, my effect? Can I really face my own effectiveness and own it? and I'm watching this, this woman. It's interesting because the body's all in, she's just like like stop it. I know, stop being so nice to me, stop telling me I'm a good baker.
Garry Schleifer:Oh my goodness, yeah funny.
Ann Betz:But I do think our clients need that as well. That sometimes they look inside and think that they're you know that it's dark and that there's screw-ups and all of that. And having the coach reflect back to them like I'm sorry, but you're telling yourself a fairy tale, because that's not the reality. Let me show you the mirror. It's really an important part of the realization.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, no, thank you. Wow, we went from one model to another and back again.
Ann Betz:I know two bottles in one.
Garry Schleifer:Two, two and wait. We'll ship you a second. No, Ann, thank you so much. What would you like our audience to do as a result of this article and this conversation?
Ann Betz:Well, I would love for them to read the article.
Ann Betz:You've got more here. I mean, it's pretty easy read, but I think you know to start thinking about what you do as a coach. This is what I want. You know it's a crazy world right now and you know lots of things people are really upset about and scared about and things like that. If you can take a look at this article and look at what you already do as a coach and how that is, I believe and I will stand for this that is increasing consciousness on the planet. Just know you're doing your job, you're doing what you're here to do, because you are doing this in small and big ways, and so I think I really want the coaches today to just be proud of yourself and know you're part of the solution, not part of the problem.
Garry Schleifer:And I will quote the great Ann Betz, in the last line of her article is in line with what she just said. Your work as a professionally trained coach may very well be increasing consciousness in this world one courageous client at a time. Well said. A reminder again uh, the website is BeA boveL eadership. com, look for the seven models and is that the best way for people to reach you, or is there some way?
Ann Betz:You know, best way to reach me is reach out to me on Linkedin and I always say yes if you're not trying to sell me something.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah If you're a coach, I say yes.
Ann Betz:If you're a coach, I say yes, totally.
Ann Betz:So, find me on LinkedIn and that's a really good place and I post articles and stuff like that. That's kind of my main place right now if you want to reach me personally. If you want to reach me personally.
Garry Schleifer:Awesome. Ann Betz, thank you so much for for, oh you know, just being with me on this journey over the last 24 years, next year and and just watching you blossom and glow in the world. Your contributions are amazing. Thank you so much. Integrate that baby.
Ann Betz:Okay, I will.
Ann Betz:I'm taking it in.
Ann Betz:y cheeks are a little red. Taking it in.
Garry Schleifer:That's it. No, you are a force, both of you, so thank you.
Ann Betz:Thanks.
Garry Schleifer:That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app, probably the one that got you here in the first place. Speaking of writing articles, if you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine and you're watching this video, you can subscribe by clicking the QR code in the top right-hand corner or by going to choice-online. com and clicking the sign up now button. Thanks again, Ann.
Ann Betz:Thank you.
Garry Schleifer:I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.