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Episode 133: Coaching as a Journey: Sustaining the Core Amid Change with guest, Carl Dierschow

• Garry Schleifer

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Coaching is not just a profession; it's a journey that intertwines timeless wisdom with contemporary challenges. In this episode of Beyond the Page, we invite you to explore the insights of Carl Dierschow, a dedicated small business coach. Together, we delve into the values that underpin successful businesses and how these principles resonate deeply within the coaching landscape. 

Amidst rapid changes shaped by technology and shifting societal norms, Carl emphasizes that the heart of coaching remains unwavering: active listening, meaningful questioning, and a genuine connection between coach and client. As he highlights the importance of Mission-driven organizations, you'll discover how many small business owners find fulfillment in making impactful contributions to their communities rather than merely chasing profit. 

The conversation also touches on the evolution of coaching, revealing how its historical roots connect with modern practices. Despite advancements like AI, Carl eloquently illustrates that core coaching competencies continue to be central to achieving personal and professional transformation.

As we navigate this intricate dance of change, one question lingers: How can we ensure that as we adapt, we don't lose sight of the values that make coaching such a powerful journey? Join us as we explore these themes and much more, inviting you to reflect on your unique journey in the coaching world. Don't miss out on this enlightening episode – subscribe now and let's keep the conversation going!

Watch the full interview by clicking here.

Find the full article here.

Learn more about Carl here.

 Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com

Garry Schleifer:

Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features that you just won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer, and I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into the latest articles, have a chat with this brilliant author sitting beside me and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. When you have a chance, join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques and make a real difference in our clients' lives, which I think that's what we're all about. Remember, this is your go-to resource for all things coaching. So let's dive in.

Garry Schleifer:

In today's episode, I'm speaking with small business coach, Carl Dierschow, who is the author of an article in our latest issue What's Hot and What's Not ~ What is Influencing Coaching? The article is entitled The More Things Change... The Human Journey Remains the Same. A little bit about Carl. He holds a CCOC, a CLC, a CSFBC and is a small business coach with Small Fish Business Consulting. He works with owners and leaders and companies who are making a powerful contribution to their communities, employees and the world. His blog, that he's very proud of, is the Values Based Business, so valuesbased. biz is the website, and it's rapidly gaining recognition for its support of companies with powerful foundations based on deep values and a compelling mission. Carl, thank you so much for joining me today.

Carl Dierschow:

Good to see you, Garry. It's been a while since we've had a chance to talk.

Garry Schleifer:

Exactly. And while we're here, I'd like to say thank you. You're a regular contributor to choice, particularly in our final say column where you get to kind of give a personal touch and close to our magazines, and you do such a fabulous job. So thank you for all of your work with us.

Carl Dierschow:

Yeah, you know I enjoy that part of the magazine because it, you know, can kind of bring things together and sometimes spark off new ideas. That's always a fun part of the learning journey and I appreciate what choice magazine brings to the profession here.

Garry Schleifer:

Oh, thank you. We appreciate doing it, we're happy to do it. Okay, so I have to ask a little bit about. You say you're a small business coach, but you talk about people who have these compelling missions and deep values. Can you give an example of one of these companies? What grouping are we talking? Climate consciousness, socialist events? What are we talking here?

Carl Dierschow:

Well, you know, it could be any of that kind of stuff. But also I run across people who are committed to say, running an organization where all employees are respected and have a voice Okay, so that's not environmental. I mean, we, we could be making any kind of widgets, right. And actually, if you look on the blog, there's a wide range of interviews that I've done with people who are in this kind of camp, and I love the diversity that people bring to this, because you know it might be around self-management. You know, how do I become the best leader? You know it may not be about how do we become a billion dollar company. Honestly, most small business owners really don't have that kind of ambition. They'd rather do something that's modest and important and impactful and they get to define that, rather than going out, and you know making a billion dollars and being on the front of the Wall Street Journal.

Carl Dierschow:

Well, you know, that's fine for other people, and that's what Small Fish is about as well. It's focusing on that small size of company. So I basically work with owners and leaders in small companies and, you know, sometimes it's local here in Colorado, but often it's elsewhere around the world. I've worked with people on basically every continent except Antarctica, so I'm still working on that.

Garry Schleifer:

Does anybody actually live there other than scientists?

Carl Dierschow:

Yeah, yeah, well, I mean. I think it is scientists who are there for a year or two or three, yeah, that kind of thing. So if you want to call them short timers, but I've never been there, so I can't speak.

Garry Schleifer:

Not yet, not yet.

Carl Dierschow:

Right, right, got something to look up to.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, exactly. Carl, why did you just decide to write this article for us? What called you?

Carl Dierschow:

Well, so I was thinking about this idea that when we're focusing on change, there's a lot of new things that are always coming up. You know, the coaching industry is very fluid, a lot of things going on, and then we get hooked into AI and all these other things, and you know, a lot of change going on in the world. But when I think about what coaching really is, I see the beginnings of it back thousands of years, and so it's like, yeah, we're moving, we're doing cool stuff and there's great things that we can bring to it. But also the core of coaching is listening to people, helping them think through the problems that they are trying to address in their life or whatever, and make decisions and actually take action. All right, and so it's like what was that called a thousand years ago? Yeah, well, it was probably called like the wise elder in the community, or you know in the community, or you know talking to your smart uncle and you know he's giving you a kick in the butt and telling you come on, get over this kid.

Carl Dierschow:

Wherever you want to go, I'll support you, but I'm also going to challenge you. Well, you know, coaching is kind of very similar to that. I'd say it's an outgrowth of that. Now we've formalized a lot of things. We've got techniques and we've got schools and all kinds of great research that's been done. It's fantastic. We continue to learn. That keeps it exciting. But the core of coaching is still how do you navigate life? Life is crazy, you know. So how do you navigate through that?

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, well, you know, to that point, and there's another question there for me, but to your point even the core competencies which were talked about, active listening, were revised five years ago maybe it's eight already now.

Garry Schleifer:

They weren't changed, they were just deepened.

Carl Dierschow:

Yeah, they deepened to the clarified.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, and they, yeah, and clarified, and you know they still hold tried and true to this day. I mean, I can't remember a call where I don't reflect on something that's in the core competencies, and I haven't seen anything new and I haven't heard anything new. But what you said earlier, though, about formalizing coaching. What do you think led to that time in our history where coaching became formalized, like what caused that? Usually there's disruption for things right.

Carl Dierschow:

Yeah, you know, I've wondered about that actually, because it was pretty clear that, you know, in the late 1900s is when that thing started to emerge. I actually worked for Hewlett Packard for many years and I learned, this stunned me, they were using the word coaching when the company was formed, which was like in the 1930s. Something like that and they were using it to mean how you, as a manager, help an individual employee to be their best and to accomplish a lot of things and, you know, deliver great value, ok, so it was pretty close to what we think of coaching today. And yet they had been using that, and so when it started in the 90s to get captured and formalized, I wasn't surprised that they landed on the word coaching. But of course there were big discussions about what that would be and how do we describe it and what are the boundaries.

Carl Dierschow:

And I think a lot of it is that our society has shifted to where we're developing a lot, we're learning a lot. You know, we went through the phase of trying to define what psychiatry was and therapy, ok, and that kind of thinking got us to say, well, that's fine for what it does. But there's this other thing which is called growing on people's strengths and acknowledging the passion and the interest in the direction that they want to set. And golly, you know, a lot of that is very individualized. It's not just in organizations. What you do in organizations, well, we can call that coaching too, I guess.

Carl Dierschow:

But you know, that has some different dynamics to it, and so I think, you know, it's just sort of an outgrowth of the whole personal development space, personal improvements, I mean, who knows? It might go back to when medicines were being developed in the 1800s, right, but that was sort of taking care of your physical body. But then they started thinking well, you know, the body doesn't explain everything. There's also this stuff going on in the brain, yeah, and so so I don't know if there's a reason why it ended up being when it was, but I see it as kind of a through a lot of paths progression.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, a lot of paths led there.

Garry Schleifer:

A friend of mine, a colleague in the coaching industry, Vicki Brock, wrote The Source Book of Coaching, and she gives a lot of different paths to it. You know psychology, therapy, even consulting, things like that. But you know, I just realized something. So, for those of you that are listening, what you don't see in Carl's background is a fish. And when we were talking earlier it just dawned on me coaching is about teaching a man, a person, or, as the fable goes, teach a man how to fish rather than give them a fish. And that just dawned on me now that that fish represents coaching from thousands of years ago.

Carl Dierschow:

Oh, absolutely. It's biblical, for God's sake.

Garry Schleifer:

Exactly.

Carl Dierschow:

But also, you know, notice that the logo is a bunch of fish that are coordinated and together.

Garry Schleifer:

Right.

Carl Dierschow:

Okay, it's not just an individual.

Carl Dierschow:

Yeah, in a school, and you know, the idea actually came from Finding Nemo that they had some scenes in there of where fish were swimming in formation.

Carl Dierschow:

And so that was one of the things that generated this idea.

Garry Schleifer:

That's great. But there you go, walking the talk. You said earlier about keeping yourself excited and you know, I'm reflecting on your article where you kind of talked about well, you know as much as it's different, it's still the same. So, in order to not be bored, the flip side is excited and you mentioned that. How do you keep yourself excited as a coach?

Carl Dierschow:

Well, good question. I mean I think there's a couple of dimensions to that. One is for my own professional development. Part of it is all the other coaches that I'm hooked to. We've got a really powerful chapter here in Colorado and the new energy which is being brought in there all the time and hearing from speakers and reading books and all of that kind of stuff, always such great ideas. But the other dimension is working with clients, because every client is different and every coaching session is different.

Carl Dierschow:

I mean, you know, we learn each other's culture and interactions in a way, so in that sense there's some sameness to it. But there's always like where am I today and what's on my mind? What am I struggling with? What captured my attention? And it becomes the fodder for a great coaching session. Every client I have had, they are all in different industries, and in different situations. I coached somebody who is a middle manager in a large company or they have five employees working for them, or they're in a nonprofit, or they're one person business. You know all kinds of different things and there's some commonality between all of that, but it's much more individualized and that, to me, is super exciting, that's what gets me out of bed every day.

Garry Schleifer:

The differences.

Carl Dierschow:

Yeah, absolutely.

Garry Schleifer:

And even that one person in each coaching call. I say you never know what you're opening the door to.

Carl Dierschow:

Absolutely. Well, and the client doesn't know either. That's what's fascinating about it, right? It gets co-created in the space between us that we don't know where the conversation is going. It's like, yeah, I had a topic when I came in, but you know, it really led to this other thing which led to this which led to this.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, exactly. It's amazing.

Garry Schleifer:

I just had a call like that. Man, this client was like up to so much and passionate about all of it and frustrated at not being able to accomplish all of it. It's wonderful to see the human condition.

Carl Dierschow:

Yeah, and you know, one of the benefits of being the coach is that I don't have to get caught up in the drama of all of that because I'm not the one who's accountable for the results, you know. So a client is worried because they're getting close to the end of the year and they haven't got their taxes straightened away and all of this craziness going on in the holiday season and blah, blah, blah. It's like, I can step back and look at the bigger picture and help them think through what's really going on and I don't have to worry about the fact that it's the end of the year and worried about taxes and all that.

Carl Dierschow:

That's what they're working on.

Garry Schleifer:

I got other people worrying about that for me, I don't even worry about even my own.

Carl Dierschow:

Well, yeah you know, that as that example, but you got other things you're worried about, Garry.

Garry Schleifer:

know right.

Carl Dierschow:

Getting that next issue out.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, well, next issue and the current one we're working on and the one after that. We've only been doing it for 22 years and it's different challenges.

Carl Dierschow:

I thought you had this all solved by now. The issues just write themselves.

Garry Schleifer:

Oh, hardly. I don't even think AI could do that. It's amazing what is coming forward as articles. We're quite thrilled. You know as much as everything's different and it stays the same. You talked about AI and technology and stuff like that. Is there anything the coaching schools should be teaching us, or the coaching industry knew? Or should we stay the course?

Carl Dierschow:

Well, I think it will change, naturally, because we're in an entrepreneurial environment and if somebody has a good idea, they just start a school to do it, or they create a class or they, you know start doing webinars or whatever. It's a very dynamic space, so there's nothing that's keeping us back from advancing as an industry. The thing we need to do is to keep taking advantage of that all over the world, whenever it happens, wherever it happens, and so I think it's natural that we will keep advancing. Will we incorporate AI into what we're doing? Sure, to the extent that AI is useful.

Carl Dierschow:

Is it useful? We don't know, yeah right, it could be.

Carl Dierschow:

There's some hints here and there, but everybody is thinking about AI and whether it's useful or not. Not just the coaching industry. So we will continue to watch that. Coaching, as it turns out, is very well connected to every other industry, because we're talking to people in all industries and in all stages of life. Okay, so if something new develops around gender, let's say, then we will be connected to that and people will say you know, there's some coaching that could exist around that topic.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah.

Carl Dierschow:

Let's go explore.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean it's a good example is the ICF core competencies were expanded to include having conversations with your client about origins basically. It's not what it says, but you know, like what are you bringing to the coaching that I need to know about your background, your origins, your history, that sort of thing. And so diversity, equity, inclusion is, therefore, a natural part.

Carl Dierschow:

So we incorporate DEI very naturally into coaching. It made for some great discussions, fabulous, and we learned a lot and we're continuing to learn a lot. So you know, as society changes, coaching will continue to change along with it, and I don't think that's a scary thing at all. I think that's what it means to deliver value to our clients.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, well, and you know what's old is new again, or so to say. I realized that one of my clients this last week, uh, two of my clients, I took them on a future self-g uided meditation. I don't know if you do those. In co-active coaching where I trained, we did that in one of our course weeks, weekends, whatever that was and it just dawned on me that that was something that had such an impact on me 23 years ago, 24 years ago, January 2025 to be exact, and in Denver have you ever heard of Denver, in your Colorado? So I did my first week of coach training in the second week of January 2001 in Denver. And then I finished it up the rest of it in Toronto.

Carl Dierschow:

And you know this learning just changes us as coaches Oh so much. I mean It's absolutely transformed my life in the way that I think about my own personal situation. I have a lot more tools at my disposal. I've got a lot of people who can help , have great, great discussions with other coaches, particularly in our chapter. So, yeah, great, great stuff.

Garry Schleifer:

my gosh. And don't even get us started on technology, because I'm not just talking AI. Back when I first started, the cost of my long distance telephone bill was a lot for doing training and that sort of thing, not for the client, because of course they absorbed their own costs. But all of these things have changed so much and it's been a wonderful journey and I'm blessed to have been a part of it and to meet you along the way? .

Carl Dierschow:

Yeah, absolutely, and you know I enjoyed when you started this. By the way, Garry, you said that I was sitting next to you and the word next is a little bit of a stretch, because it's only like we're about 1500 miles away.

Garry Schleifer:

That's all?

Carl Dierschow:

That's all.

Garry Schleifer:

Where I grew up, t hat's a neighbor. Okay, that's a close neighbor.

Carl Dierschow:

Fabulous.

Garry Schleifer:

You know, Carl. Thank you so much. What would you like our audience to do as a result of the article and this conversation?

Carl Dierschow:

Well, so people can always reach out to me if they want to go and check out valuesbased. biz. So that's my blog and then I keep writing on that every week. Very enjoyable. And they can always reach out to me. I'll have a free session with anybody, a conversation, even with you, Garry.

Garry Schleifer:

Wow, who knows what you can do for my business. It's been going for twenty four years.

Carl Dierschow:

Cause there's great collaborations that come out of these kinds of connections, and I love doing that.

Garry Schleifer:

And that website is?

Carl Dierschow:

Values based.biz.

Garry Schleifer:

And in Canadian that's B-I-Z. In America it's B-I-Z.

Carl Dierschow:

That's right.

Carl Dierschow:

Well, I'm in America so I got to stick gotta stick with the local customs.

Garry Schleifer:

Of course, of course, no, but that's the way to reach you as well as to sign up for a one-on-one and all that sort of thing.

Carl Dierschow:

Yeah, yeah, that's the easiest thing and, you know, if you want to subscribe to the blog posts, it's right there on the website, easy to do, and then they'll come to your inbox every week.

Garry Schleifer:

Awesome. Carl, I want to thank you again, not just for this call but all of your past words of wisdom. I'm glad we've got you on audio now and hope to read more from you and hear about your clients and what your thoughts are. Thank you so much for always giving us some great closing remarks on our issues.

Carl Dierschow:

And thank you so much, Garry, for what you do. This is a very important magazine for our industry.

Garry Schleifer:

Thank you.

Carl Dierschow:

I've been a subscriber since I met you at the Denver ICF Conference 2003. Yeah, was it then? Something like that.

Garry Schleifer:

That was when we launched. We opened the first boxes. Again, Denver, November 2003.

Carl Dierschow:

I was being a volunteer at that conference.

Garry Schleifer:

So, oh my gosh, that's great.

Carl Dierschow:

Been a few years.

Garry Schleifer:

And, by the way, it's the only magazine for professional coaching.

Carl Dierschow:

Well, okay.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah. Not just okay. It's the only one man.

Carl Dierschow:

Well, I mean there's there's a lot of others that claim that they're valuable.

Garry Schleifer:

They're not an unbiased, globally distributed, colorful magazine and they don't have the great Carl Dierschow in it, so we got one up on them. That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page.

Garry Schleifer:

For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app, probably the one that got you here. If you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine and you're watching this, you can sign up for your free issue by scanning the QR code in the top right hand corner or by going to choice-online. com and clicking the Sign Up Now button. Thanks again, Carl. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.