choice Magazine
choice Magazine is the vehicle that forwards the global conversation about professional coaching by providing: diverse perspectives, thought-provoking commentary, insightful discussion and access to services, tools, resources and practical information.
choice Magazine
Episode 142: Climate Consciousness: The Coaching Connection with guest, Lydia Stevens and Grattan Donnelly
What if the key to transformative coaching isn't about adding climate awareness to your practice, but recognizing it's already there? Climate biodiversity coach Lydia Stevens and regenerative leadership coach Grattan Donnelly challenge us to look "upstream" beyond immediate client concerns to the interconnected living systems that shape all human experience.
The powerful metaphor they share illuminates why this matters: villagers downstream rescue bodies floating in a river but rarely venture upstream to discover why people are falling in. Similarly, coaching that ignores ecological context addresses symptoms rather than root causes. "Business as usual is downstream," explains Donnelly. "Until we start thinking about what kind of world we really want to live in."
This expanded awareness doesn't require changing client agendas. Stevens points out that climate consciousness isn't something "outside" coaching—it's embedded in everyday life. The framework they share expands traditional coaching domains (self, team, organization) to include land, workspace, wider ecosystems, and biosphere, recognizing that all human activities exist within living systems.
Their methodology often involves nature itself. Donnelly conducts sessions as outdoor "walk and talks," letting nature serve as co-coach. This practice activates the calming parasympathetic nervous system, allowing clients to literally see challenges from new perspectives. "When I slow down, I see twice as much," he notes. This integration of "head, heart, gut, and earth" creates conditions for profound mindset shifts without forcing climate topics.
At its core, climate-conscious coaching recognizes what Donnelly calls the false "story of separation" between humans and nature: "We're not a part of nature, we're not apart from nature. We are nature." Through this reconnection, clients discover new possibilities for relating to themselves, others, and the world around them.
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Find the full article here.
Learn more about Lydia Stevens here.
Lydia is offering a free 30 minute leadership coaching experience in nature wherever you are based in the world - see here.
Learn more about Grattan Donnelly here.
Additional Resources:
Shaping Tomorrow: A Playbook for Coaching Leaders in Sustainable Decision-Making and Policy. ~This flexible workbook provides actionable strategies, communication frameworks, and holistic approaches, that will show you how to navigate political systems and inspire leaders to make courageous, sustainable choices for our planet’s future.
The Future We Choose is an inspiring manifesto from Global Optimism Co-Founders, Christiana Figueres and Tom Rivett-Carnac. It explains what’s to come, how to face it and what we can do. Practical, optimistic and empowering, this is a book for every generation, showing us the exciting world we can all be part of creating.
Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/
Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features that you just won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer, and I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into the latest articles, have a chat with these brilliant authors behind this particular one, and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. Join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques and make a real difference in our clients' lives. Remember, this is your go-to resource for all things coaching, and let's dive in. In today's episode, I'm speaking with climate biodiversity coach, Lydia Stevens, and regenerative leadership coach, Grattan Donnelly, who are the authors of an article in our latest issue Climate Consciousness and Coaching Making the Connection. The article they wrote is entitled Looking Upstream: How Coaches Can Make the Shift from Reacting to Shaping a Sustainable Future.
Garry Schleifer:A little bit about Lydia. She's a climate biodiversity coach and co-founder of Climate Biodiversity Coaching CIC. She's a leadership coach, facilitator and trainer. She designed and trained coaches in the ICF accredited Climate Biodiversity Coaching course, who now form a global community working across diverse areas of climate coaching. Her clients include the British Government, Natural England and Procter Gamble. Lydia uses a coaching approach to find the spark that we all have within us to contribute small or large steps towards habitable futures. She's a member of the Climate Coaching Alliance and specializes in coaching in partnership with nature. Grattan Donnelly is a regenerative leadership coach who integrates neuroscience, mindfulness and nature walks and talks into all his work. The context for his work are climate, biodiversity and environmental crises. Also a member of the Climate Coaching Alliance, he's a part of a growing global community of 4,000 plus coaches who are already engaged in this work. He also facilitates the mindfulness-based sustainable transformational course with their Inner Green Deal, a not-for-profit whose work around climate leadership with the EU and UNDP is based on inner transformation for outer transformation.
Garry Schleifer:Thank you both so much for joining me today and for writing this article. And no, I'm going to ask anyway, but I don't get it's a surprise that you decide to write for this issue. But why did you decide to write for this issue? Like you know, you've got some great stuff in here. I'm glad you did.
Lydia Stevens :Shall I go first? I mean, it was an opportunity to make the work that we're doing reach more people and to be considered as a mainstream form of coaching. That's my answer.
Garry Schleifer:That's your answer, and you're sticking to it. Grattan, what did she say to entice you, or did you entice her to help write this article?
Grattan Donnelly:Well, she twisted my arm and said we need to write this article. But no, I think we're in a time where I think the evidence of the climate crisis is just present with us in so many different ways and, you know, I think it's a subject that really belongs to coaching conversations in terms of the wider context. So I think it's very timely and I think, congratulations to you and featuring so many different articles in the current choice magazine. I only was reading yesterday all the different articles you have. So it's fantastic to see that.
Garry Schleifer:So, yeah, and a lot of your colleagues from the Climate Coaching Alliance as well. So thank you both for for doing that. I want to tackle. Go right to the first thing that caught my eye, again. I've read it how many times now? The issue, of course, being the publisher. Going upstream, and you tell a kind of disturbing but interesting story about looking upstream for the problem. Explain to our listeners, especially the ones that haven't read the article, what had you go with that perspective.
Grattan Donnelly:Well, it's actually a story that I've taken and adapted from mindfulness-based stress reduction course. So I'm a qualified MBSR teacher as well and the story goes. So if I tell the story it will become, maybe apparent what I'm talking about. But so villagers downstream can almost remember the day the first body came down the river. And every day more and more bodies came down the river. Lots of people were rescued and lots of people still drowned. So over time the bodies kept arriving down the river. So the villagers, they trained the swimmers to be better at rescuing. They got better boats, but still bodies came down the river, still people drowned. And over time they built an amazing infrastructure, fantastic ambulances, hospitals, boats and so on, and still people were coming down the river, still people were drowning.
Grattan Donnelly:And so every now and again some of the villagers would say well, maybe we should go upstream and find out why the bodies or why the people are arriving in the river in the first place.
Grattan Donnelly:And invariably the response was something along the lines of oh, the work we're doing here is way too important, we're far too busy, we can't let people drown. And so, in a way, business as usual is downstream. Busyness as usual is downstream, and you know, we can do all the leadership and coaching downstream, but until we are prepared to get out of the river and start walking upstream and start thinking about, well, what kind of world do we really want to live in and how do we start to create that better world? And so going upstream is an invitation to get out of the river to start to see some of the conditioning that we have. You know, it's almost like we're living in this story that the only way we can live our lives is through business as usual, busyness as usual, downstream. I think more and more people are getting the sense that it's not working.
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, well, it's not where I thought this conversation was going to go, or there is a story, to be honest. When what I heard today was about the future and thinking about the future we wanted, and where I first went was well, the problem is upstream, the problem is above us, the problem is bigger than us and many people have spoken about whose responsibility is it for climate consciousness and climate change? And I know that it's all of our business. So thank you for adding that future perspective into that.
Lydia Stevens :Yeah, I mean I'll just build on that. In the forward to the Climate Coaching Alliance Political Pod Playbook, which is called Shaping Tomorrow, Michael Kavanagh, he talks about shining a light that is higher up.
Lydia Stevens :So if you have a torch and you only shine it at a dot or you look at a microscope, it is very, very minor, minute detail, and then if you broaden the light you have a bigger perspective.
Lydia Stevens :And I think that's also what we're saying, is that systemic thinking, looking at all the interconnectedness, joining the dots between everything, is helpful to see how nature operates anyway and how we're sort of almost going down a rabbit hole where we are at the moment as a climate, as a planet, as a species, as an interconnected with all other living species as well. So this is a point about the role of coaching and it leads to the framework of six dimensions, which is basically taking yourself, the team and the organization, which are the traditional forms of coaching, and also including land, workspace, wider ecosystems and biosphere. So there's the whole living system that we are facing, and the water we drink, everything that we breathe, the food that we eat, is all part of the coaching context. So that's sort of long-term thinking. Shining the light high up is where we're going with this type of coaching and we contract for that and we invite our clients into this very exciting way of thinking.
Garry Schleifer:Well, it brings up a really good question that I've asked many of the authors. So let's put it into context. The two of you both describe your coaching as climate consciousness coaching, biodiversity. So there's a marketing aspect, there's a knowledge aspect for the people hiring you, so they want to talk about climate consciousness and sustainability, etc. What about those of us who are not? How do we introduce the climate conversation into our agenda? Well see, and I can't even say that into our clients conversation unless invited.
Lydia Stevens :It's there already.
Garry Schleifer:Oh, do tell.
Lydia Stevens :So did you have a glass of water earlier today?
Garry Schleifer:Yes, still.
Lydia Stevens :Are you breathing?
Garry Schleifer:Yes.
Lydia Stevens :What's going on in your stomach?
Garry Schleifer:Processing my breakfast, thank you very much.
Lydia Stevens :Do we have sunlight?
Garry Schleifer:Sometimes.
Lydia Stevens :So you see what I'm getting at here?
Lydia Stevens :It's not outside where we are, who we are and how we operate on a day to day basis. The other angle is that where we are is critical for the future. So it's about presence now, but thinking through decision making, long term decision making, short term decision making, who's making the decisions on behalf of whom? There's lots of questions around where we are and why we're here and how we're going to be resilient and regenerative for the future. What do you think, Grattan?
Grattan Donnelly:Yeah, no, I think it's for me to answer your question, Garry, I tell the upstream, downstream story as part of the introduction in my first coaching session, and all my coaching is walk and talks outdoors, in nature, and so, in a way, when we're outdoors in nature, our nervous system calms down. So I have a golden retriever and so he is my co-coach, as well as nature being my co-coach, and it really calms down the nervous system when we activate that soothing, calming system.
Grattan Donnelly:When I slow down, I see twice as much. So the terrain where I walk, you go from overlooking the hills to the city, to the sea, to the mountains, and it's so fabulous because you're shifting perspectives and this allows people to take different views of what's happening for them and, in a way, we're intentionally cultivating conditions where mindset shifts can happen. And so I'm curious because when I read the foreword from the publisher note, you spoke about how you never thought about integrating your two passions, coaching and climate change, together before, and I'm curious what led to that mindset shift for you?
Garry Schleifer:That was a fellow coach, my co-lead in this, Renee Freeman, was brought forward to me from another friend, Suzi Pomerantz, when I said climate consciousness and I kept deferring this issue. And then I met with Renee because I couldn't make the connection. I couldn't connect the dots. So I met with Renee and found out that she'd been connecting the dots for over 30 years. So in the months, weeks and months of working with Renee on building this issue, I started to get the sense of well, right away I had the example you can bring introduce this into your coaching and be a climate conscious coach, which was something I didn't even know, although I was a member of the Climate Coaching Alliance by then. So I started to get the gist of all of it that it wasn't just a movement for the planet but it was a movement for coaches to integrate into their coaching. So my mindset shifted, like, over time, to connect the two, so that now I'm at the next phase, which is I'm ready to have those conversations, just like I'm ready to have DEI conversations and you know, and that sort of thing. So I that's to answer your question directly, thank Susie and Renee. Renee particularly for being the example that said, hey, why not? Well, I did it. So I'm like, oh okay, so it was pretty easy after that, and I still ask the question for our fellow coaches if our client's agenda doesn't have it, how do we introduce it? But then I think of the other things that I introduced that are not on their agenda either as an opening for possible conversation. Sometimes it's just about letting them know what you're willing to talk about, because sometimes when I get executive clients especially, they're like well, I have to only talk about work, and I'm like who said that you know kind of thing right? And then they open up and we talk about relationships and you know, dating and all kinds of things that are important to the other side of their lives. So now I'm quite open about introducing climate consciousness, sustainability and just revealing my passion.
Lydia Stevens :Yeah, I think that's right, Garry, and in terms of the ability to say anything. I always say everything can be said, everything's on the table. There's no taboos. You know, Whatever you need, this is the space. So it's really, really open. If we go to the Climate Biodiversity Coaching Capability flower, which forms the basis of our ICF accredited climate biodiversity coaching course that you mentioned in the introduction.
Lydia Stevens :Establish and maintain agreements is step one, so allow a conversation with your client at the start, even in the chemistry session or getting to know you session. What is this? Why are they wanting coaching? How's that going to work? What do they need? How do you play a part? What's the role of the coach? You know it's the usual conversation, but it just allows in that contracting and the contracting continues throughout and, as Gratton says, he does a lot of his work outdoors. I do as well and I think that just allows this interconnectedness with nature to be already part of the coaching and it allows us to use the way of working of nature, natural principles and I did a course on Think Like a Tree, which you know formed the basis of a lot of my thinking around how nature operates and indigenous wisdom also plays a big part in you know how indigenous cultures haven't let go of our interrelationship with the earth.
Lydia Stevens :It's just a sort of slightly Western society that has and I think some of this work is actually inner work to say how would nature work? How do the trees grow? How do how do ferns unfurl? And what are the ants doing? Or the bees, when they're all working together? This kind of thing?
Garry Schleifer:Yeah, you know, you bring a really good point. You can bring in metaphors, analogies of a nature context, nature content, and just you know, let it be like it is with Gratton's walks to decompress and calm everything down. And I do have to ask one question, sorry, Grattan, when you say you're walking and coaching, are you in one-on-one live or are you bringing them along on the walk through Zoom or video channels?
Grattan Donnelly:So I do both. So this morning I was lucky to have two in-person walk and talks and I find those very nourishing for me. I don't use video but I use audio. So if you walk out your door in Toronto, I walk out my door in Dublin and you know, we walk and talk intentionally and so it's coaching in a way that's also really paying attention to what's around us and, you know, what are you noticing in nature? How do you feel physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, even when you're in nature? Just inviting people to notice the impact that that has on their being and how that then feeds into their thinking. And just to say Garry, I loved how you shared your story of how okay, it took a while to figure out how to integrate this. It didn't make sense in how to join the dots and then through your colleagues and friends, and that probably shows the benefits of having a good coach. So everyone should get a good coach. So the mindset shift happens in its own way and we don't necessarily need to understand exactly how it happens, but when we cultivate those conditions, Marcel Proust said "he real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new lands, but in seeing with new eyes." That's what my coaching is about.
Garry Schleifer:You know, there's a key word in that last sentence, cultivate. I like that. It's not about shifting the client's agenda, it's about cultivating other possibilities through just regular conversation and interesting, go back to my story. One last thing that I was hearing when you said that was that I never thought to bring the two together. So the first part of it was the awareness of, oh, I have these separate. Oh, I can bring them together, and so it wasn't even on my radar to bring the two together.
Garry Schleifer:I thought, what's coaching got to do with climate consciousness? Well, guess what? Y'all have a lot to say about it.
Grattan Donnelly:Yeah, and in a way it's a bit like your client coming to coaching and saying, oh, I can only talk about work, you know, and then well, actually, no, you can talk about whatever.
Garry Schleifer:Sustainability, environment, relationships, finance.
Garry Schleifer:It's interesting is the other thing that just resonated with me was that I have a video on a particular platform that I coach through, and so I'm like marketing myself and I always ask so why did you choose me as your coach? Because they get a choice of three, right, and like nine times out of 10, they say it's because of my entrepreneurial background that I mentioned in the video. So I could just as easily have mentioned climate consciousness and the environment, and then they would have chosen me because that was something that was important to them, right? Yeah, that's so many ways to do it now, right? So like organically would be another word.
Lydia Stevens :Organically and sharing your values.
Lydia Stevens :As Grattan said, you know sharing who you are, and that could be in marketing or in a discovery call. But you know who you are is how you coach is a saying from Edna Murdoch, and that's something that we definitely work on through the course on climate biodiversity coaching is who you are, is how you coach. Embody a climate biodiversity coaching mindset means that you integrate this, because we're not just in our heads. We believe and have values and we have how manifestations in our in our body as well. So it's a totally integrated head, heart, gut and earth. We talk about how to integrate your head, your heart, your gut and the earth.
Garry Schleifer:Oh wow, that's brilliant. I love that. I don't want to brush past what you said earlier as well about this handbook. What do you call it A playbook? Tell us a little more about who it's for and where people can find out more about it.
Lydia Stevens :So, on the Climate Coaching A lliance website, which I think the link will be in the notes, there's a playbook called Shaping Tomorrow and the full title I'm getting right now.
Garry Schleifer:So for listeners, it's climatecoachingalliance. org.
Lydia Stevens :t's, Shaping Tomorrow - A playbook for coaching leaders in sustainable decision-making and policy.
Garry Schleifer:Brilliant.
Lydia Stevens :And there's six steps. And it's really interesting because in the Climate Coaching Alliance we've also got a book which is the Ecological and Climate Conscious Coaching book, and this book has been integrated into people's mindsets and awareness through book circles around the world and this Shaping Tomorrow playbook, we're just about to start integrating this through book circles so that in different languages and cultures and contexts, people can play around, adapt and learn and share what they think of this and how they've found it useful or not, so that we can really make it alive. And there's lots of information on the website that Garry referred you to.
Garry Schleifer:Right, that's great, and I also want to say that I think it's climate biodiversity coaching. com, if you want to learn more about the training correct, the biodiversity coach. Excellent, my gosh, this has been so rich. Is there anything else that's come up for you since you wrote the article and submitted it? Because unfortunately, we limit your word length. Any burning things you want our listeners to know?
Lydia Stevens :Well, there's just a lot to read.
Lydia Stevens :There's a book by Christiana Figueres, who is the instigator of the Paris Agreement, and co-author Tom Rivett Karnak, The Future We Choose.
Lydia Stevens :And they have a podcast called Outrage and Optimism.
Garry Schleifer:Wow Throw in a little hope and we have something to go on. That's great, Grattan. Anything to add?
Grattan Donnelly:I think for me there's one. So I've done maybe four or five different climate coaches courses. So I did the course with Lydia and her colleague Jackie, and I've done my own courageous conversations, having conversations that matter, and at the root cause of the climate and biodiversity crisis is the story of separation that we have told ourselves.
Grattan Donnelly:So it's the separation of human and nature, and masculine and feminine, inner and outer and left and right brain. I have it too. I I have , CCA cca book But but this is a model which is, in a way, we've been told this story, or this story of separation has been told over centuries and we've been conditioned to think in certain ways, and so as we start to realize this story of the separation of human and nature, it's a false dichotomy. So it's we're interconnected, so everything is interconnected, and so you know, humans, we're not a part of nature, we're not apart from nature. We are. That's that's the realization that starts to happen, and then, through the story of reconnection, we're starting to heal that story of separation, and so that's of, I. think, think maybe useful to have that context, because how we relate then to ourselves, to others and the natural natural world on , our economy, our society, everything is dependent on what mother earth provides for us.
Garry Schleifer:Well said, very wise words and things to really take in into our heart and our soul.
Garry Schleifer:Well, I can always talk forever, but we will have to draw this to a close. What would you like our listeners and readers to do as a result of the article and the conversation? Obviously, join the Climate Coaching Alliance. Sorry to take your thunder, but that was an obvious one ClimateCoachingAlliance. org. And that will be provided along with this audio. Anything else? Top of mind?
Lydia Stevens :Well, I'm offering some conversations, some nature-based conversations, for people that want to reach out. Happy to do a 30-minute discovery to experience this and you know, see where it goes.
Garry Schleifer:And how do they find out about those, Lydia?
Lydia Stevens :They can contact me at Lydia@ climate biodiversity coaching. com. My email, Lydia@climate biodiversity coaching. com or on LinkedIn, and happy to connect.
Garry Schleifer:Awesome. Thank you. Very generous. I hope our listeners take advantage of that. Sounds like a great experience. Grattan, anything to add?
Grattan Donnelly:Well, just to say, I will also match Lydia's offer. We're not competing, we're collaborating. And I do have an invitation for coaches. I do invite coaches to start thinking about bringing their coaching outdoors, because for me, when we're outdoors, this is a game changer. When we bring nature into coaching and coaching into nature, it's the key differentiate. And so many of my clients when I tell them how I work, oh, oh, so we're not on Zoom, so we're actually walking. We're moving, oh and we can meet m aybe even, they go oh, wow, I love that. That's fantastic, let's do it.
Lydia Stevens :If you are part of a sustainability team or you're a CEO and you want to work on this sustainability regeneration then team coaching, systems coaching, collaboration and co-creation of a different way of thinking, being and interacting, outdoors or indoors, with the plants and nature within the room. We've done this for Natural England and I've also worked with Procter and Gamble on this, so it'd be lovely to hear from teams, from organizations as well as individuals.
Garry Schleifer:Awesome. Well, thank you and Grattan, you didn't give us how to reach you.
Grattan Donnelly:Yeah, so you can reach me at grattan@grattandonnelly. com is my email. And yeah, www. grattendonnelly. com is my website. So also on LinkedIn as well, so should be easy enough to find.
Garry Schleifer:I think so there's not too many Grattans that I've heard of.
Garry Schleifer:It's like Garry with two r's, you know.
Grattan Donnelly:No, not too many.
Garry Schleifer:Well, thank you both so much for writing for us and for being on this podcast. Thank you so much. That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app. If you're watching this video and you're not a subscriber, you can sign up for free this video and you're not a subscriber, you can sign up for a free digital issue by scanning the QR code in the top corner of my screen, not theirs. Or if you're not and you're listening, go to choice-online. com and click the sign up now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.