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Episode 165: Trust That Changes Coaching with guest, Jenna Stoliker

• Garry Schleifer

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Trust isn’t a nice-to-have in coaching; it’s the medium everything flows through. Garry sits down with executive and leadership coach Jenna Stoliker to unpack trust as a living competency—one that’s built daily through intention, awareness, and alignment with values. Drawing on decades of research carried forward through the Trust Within framework, Jenna breaks trust into four observable behaviors—acceptance, openness, congruence, and reliability—and shows how each is powered by specific values that make trust visible and repeatable.

We go beyond rapport and dig into the inner game. Self-trust becomes the foundation for psychological safety: how we talk to ourselves, how we manage judgment, and how we repair when we miss the mark. Jenna shares practical ways to cultivate that inner steadiness, from reflective journaling to micro-repairs that rebuild confidence and connection. We explore why some coaches develop trust quickly, how the profession’s stance of meeting clients where they are shapes the coaching field, and what leaders can borrow to foster trusthttps://youtu.be/PsOLIuhadW0-centered cultures that actually deliver results under pressure.

If you love actionable frameworks, you’ll appreciate how the model aligns with ICF competencies. Presence, active listening, and evoking awareness all find traction through the four behaviors and their paired values. You’ll hear concrete cues to watch for, simple practices to strengthen reliability and openness, and guidance on giving and receiving feedback in ways that are direct, humane, and in service of the client’s agenda. For deeper dives, Jenna points to resources at JennaStaliker.com and ConsciousLeadershipAlliance.com, including research and psychometric reports.

Subscribe to Beyond the Page, share this conversation with a colleague, and leave a review with one insight you’re taking into your next session. Your reflection might spark someone else’s breakthrough.

Watch the full interview by clicking here. 

Find the full article here.

Learn more about Jenna Stoliker here.

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Garry Schleifer:

Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features you just won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer, and I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into this latest article, have a chat with this brilliant author over here, and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. When you have a chance, join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques, and make a real difference in our clients' lives. This is your go-to resource for all things coaching. But in the meantime, let's dive into our podcast. In today's episode, I'm speaking with Executive and Leadership coach Jenna Stoliker, who's the author of an article in our latest issue, "Trust. Why is it intrinsic to coaching?" Her article is entitled "Trust as a Living Competency: The Inner and Interpersonal Practices That Deepen Coaching Impact." A little bit about Jenna. She is a PCC, as am I. Welcome to the club. And as I mentioned, an executive and leadership coach. She has more than 30 years of experience in leadership development and 19 years as a professional coach. She helps leaders cultivate trust-centered cultures where people and organizations can truly thrive.

Garry Schleifer:

As founder for the Center of Conscious Leadership and the steward of the trust within assessments, Jenna weaves evidence-based practices with soulful, human-centered wisdom. Her work is rooted in the belief that trust is both a daily practice and a sacred responsibility, one that begins within. She is passionate about helping others lead with integrity, presence, and deep inner alignment. Wow, thank you so much for joining me today, Jenna.

Jenna Stoliker:

Well, thank you so much, Garry, for having me and what a lovely introduction. Thank you.

Garry Schleifer:

You sound great.

Jenna Stoliker:

Wow. Why you sound old?

Garry Schleifer:

Well, if you are, then so am I. But I've been coaching for 24 and a half years and choice for 23. So we're in the same generation. How's that?

Jenna Stoliker:

We are, yes. And I was aware of as soon as I said that old, I'm like, it's the languaging and the nuance of the words. We're wise. Maybe we're wise.

Garry Schleifer:

Wise, mature some would saying. Well, I guess it's no surprise that you decide to write an article for us with all the background, but what really drove you to jump up and say, I'm in.

Jenna Stoliker:

You know, well, one, I've been hearing a lot about trust more recently, like in the last few years, where it seems like people are gravitating towards understanding what is and how are we forming relationships? And because of the work that I do, one, it's nice to hear that it's becoming much more of a public conversation, or it's much more in people's awareness for that. And then when I saw that this issue was going to be all around trust, I thought, well, goodness. One, I'm so curious to know, you know, who else was writing on that and what the topics were and the angles were coming from it. And I thought there might just be something I could contribute to the conversation. So that's what really piqued my interest. And I thought, why not add to the conversation?

Garry Schleifer:

And you did quite well, thank you. And I was rereading this morning, and you know, our art director added a living image of water lilies, and I just couldn't help but think living competency as in nature, right? That nature and that sort of thing. And also when I read your bio, when I read that you see it as a daily practice, how did you say it? That trust is both a daily practice and a sacred responsibility. Well, yeah, yeah.

Jenna Stoliker:

Well, I do see it as that, right? Because I think if we are well, we start with trusting ourselves, which also then extends to how we trust each other and have relationships built on trust. And it's really hard to have a relationship if there isn't some sort of well, one psychological safety so that you can be open and give feedback and whatnot. But if you don't have that trust, you don't have much of a relationship. And so yeah, that's kind of how I'm viewing it, and it's always evolving, like we relationships are not stagnant, and neither should we be, and neither should how we form trust with ourselves.

Garry Schleifer:

Well, I'm guessing that's why you decided to describe it as a living competency. Yeah. How has that has that evolved over your coaching career?

Jenna Stoliker:

Yeah, interesting. Because it is growing, and when you asked me that now, I'm like, how has it truly evolved? Yeah, I will say this. Without me fully realizing it in the moment, many years ago, I would say even probably back into my childhood is probably where it started. It started growing that seed was planted by just watching the adults in my life around the dinner table or in conversation, and then thinking, you know, when you go into school, you're meeting all new kids, and how do you form new friendships and all of that? I thought it's really fascinating how some people just naturally enter into relationships and it they seem really open and just you feel really comfortable with them. And I've also noticed other people who seem to hold back a little bit, almost like a wait and see attitude, right? And so like I noticed that early on in my life, and then I kind of just held on to that for a bit and thinking, okay, that's just because people are different, because they are. But then I started to see how the dynamics really played out in the workplace, right? And so I think as how it evolved for me in my career and in coaching was realizing just how our preferences for how we want to communicate, how we prefer to engage first, has such an impact on how that trust is built. And so over the years, that's really what got me thinking about relationships form in a certain way. And in some ways, there's a little bit of a formula to that, but everyone has a slightly different formula. And why, how is it that it works and what happens when it doesn't work? And can you rebuild it? And that's what really drew me into this whole body of work of researching trust and what happens, how do we build it? How does this impact leadership? How does this impact our teams? What does this mean in the workplace for how effective we are? And this is it's kind of always evolving. And I'm even now starting to look at it a little uh differently too, which is still almost like it's new to me, so I haven't full-on articulated exactly what is new, but I can feel something still evolving.

Garry Schleifer:

Wow, I can't wait to hear about that when it finally settles in and you can have words for it. You know, I'm curious, you sound like someone who unobserved trust came natural to you. Would you say that's true. I'll just yeah, go ahead.

Jenna Stoliker:

Well, yeah, I think does it come natural?

Garry Schleifer:

Did it like.

Jenna Stoliker:

Or did it?

Garry Schleifer:

Because you've done a lot of research, so you and I'm saying this for myself as well, so that's why this is like I noticed that early on, I didn't know it, but I can gather trust really quickly. And then doing this issue, I realized that I can do more, and that it's a practice, and that I can now name the things that had the trust develop early on in my coaching relationships.

Jenna Stoliker:

Yes. Yeah, I will have to agree with that for sure. I t does come, I guess it does come naturally. I think that's probably what also drew me to this particular like body of work to understand how trust is developed. It's because it you know, at some level, like we all have a certain things that are so natural to us, it's this like unconscious competence, yeah.

Garry Schleifer:

Right.

Jenna Stoliker:

Right. And then at some point you realize, oh wait, not everybody does it that way, or it's not like that. And so you go now, how would I describe that? How would I help somebody else through that? And what I've okay, so this is in hindsight, having a really healthy foundation of love, of acceptance does support being able to build trust. Now we can always as adults, right? We make our own choices and we choose to do with like what is in front of us and make certain choices of how we want to engage with each other. And just because our backgrounds might be different or our upbringings might be different, and not everyone feels like they had a great steady foundation from the get-go, doesn't mean that you can't build trust. I would say back to your question of, I think I was really fortunate in that I can see parts of early on what really aided in developing my ability to lean into trust, to form trust, and that it where that came probably more easily for me than maybe for other people.

Garry Schleifer:

It made me wonder, and I don't know if any of your research, have you heard of any research that coaches have an innate skill with trust? Like, is it you know, is it one of those if you put a bunch of people in a room and you tested them on trust, they're more likely to be coaches or they'd be better suited to be coaches? I don't know, it's just because I'm here I am talking to you, and I'm thinking, well, I maybe I was the only one, and you're saying, well, same for you. So is it something that we came to the table with and developed through coach training? Did we already have it and coach training embellished it? It's just a curious concept.

Jenna Stoliker:

I am actually even more curious now that you bring it up, because I think that's where I've been thinking about the research that we've done around like, so how does trust get built? What's needed to maintain trust? And then now looking at it through the lens as coaches, you know, and if you look at like different fields that people get drawn to, there's usually, and I'm gonna generalize, right? But there are some characteristics, like if when I look at like the field of finance or accounting, people who seem to really feel most comfortable in that environment all tend to share similar characteristics. They really kind of gravitate towards the numbers, the numbers don't lie, there's a formula for it. It's I don't have to second guess some of that stuff. I think maybe it's quite possible for many coaches or the coaching community is that as coaches, we naturally gravitate towards accepting people for who they are. You know, we talk so much about like meet your client where they're at. And I think oftentimes that's probably fairly easy in some ways for many of us coaches to do that. How we listen, how we be able to provide that. I will say provide feedback in a way, and this all depends on like what kind of coaching you're doing, but being able to be receptive to feedback and then delivering feedback in a way that's objective and it's in service to the person and not just for yourself. I think that may just be some natural tendencies that we as coaches have. Hence we gravitate towards this profession.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah. Interesting. You touched on a few things that have me go, oh, that makes sense. Like when you first start coach training, consider your client, like you said, your client is naturally what back in the day it was naturally creative, resourceful, and whole. I think we've been a bit now, and that we meet the client where they're at. So right away, you're not demanded to trust them, but you have a playing field that says, okay, let's just trust your client is okay. Yes, they're at who they are, what's going on for them. And of course, we always have the guardrails, like you know, if they we have some sense of this, some other modalities might need to be a play, you know, or that sort of thing. So yeah, so we're tossed out into the field already having the trust framework.

Jenna Stoliker:

Yes, in many ways, right? Where it's it's the invitation to say, hey, look, you don't. I mean, there's probably so many other positions, careers, fields where you have to make incredibly quick decisions. It can be very life-altering if you don't. And so there is a level of decision-making and judgment calls that have to be made. And in coaching, we're saying you don't have to do all that, like just be with in this moment and let's just see where this conversation goes. Yeah, let's see where your client wants to go and really being fully present with them. And so, in by saying that, what we've in essence said is hey, drop any judgments you have, like it's okay. You don't have to judge.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, well, and we like to say the client's in a judgment-free zone for, of course. We always have to, in order to be present, we have to keep pulling back and checking and make sure we're not judging, but you know, we have our own work. Well, speaking of own work, we're talking a lot about the trust of a client and others. What about how can they cultivate deeper self-trust and come to the field right play?

Jenna Stoliker:

Yeah, well, you know, and so that's probably one of the newer things that newer, like in the last three to five years, I started delving into because I started this work looking at like, well, other relationships and had this come almost like this outward look like, well, how do I do this with somebody else? And then I realized, well, if we want to have trusting relationships, and I need to show up fully, I need to show up with a level of acceptance and non-judgment. I can only do that if I am accepting and non-judging of myself.

Garry Schleifer:

Very true, right?

Jenna Stoliker:

And so that's what got me thinking, hmm, how do we want to cultivate this in ourselves? So, back to your question like, how can we as coaches start doing this for ourselves? We've kind of alluded to this and maybe mentioned this a few times already, is around just love and non-judgment. So, where might you be finding that love for yourself and acknowledgement that you are whole, you are resourceful. And how do you support yourself in that? Like, what is your self-talk through all of that? And that's probably one of the first steps I would point to or invite people who are especially coaches. Yeah, where are you supporting yourself?

Garry Schleifer:

Thank you. And, you reminded me. So for those that are listening or perhaps you have a reflective journal. Those are great questions to sit and ponder over a cup of tea or coffee in the morning or whenever you do. Also a reminder that in your article, thank you, you put a reflective inventory, and there's some questions in there as well that for people to ponder practicing trust from the inside out. So some more references in there. We also mentioned off and on, and you mentioned the article, the nuance of trust is grounded in core values. Now, you also have this thing called the trust within framework, which helps coaches turn these insights into daily practice and you mentioned the article, tell us more about that.

Jenna Stoliker:

Okay. I'll start with the general framework. Thank you, and then we'll talk about the values. I trust you, right?

Garry Schleifer:

I trust you going down the road.

Jenna Stoliker:

Oh, thank you, Garry. So the general framework is that we initially started looking at trust, and I say we, because this has really been it's not just me. This is we have decades of research, and so it's really started back nearly 50 years ago. When uh Dr. Ralph Colby was a licensed psychologist, who's also a minister, and he was really curious about behavior, in particular relationships and where trust is formed or how it might break down. And then my mentor, Keith Ayers, joined Dr. Colby a few years into his research and his looking at like how are these behaviors formed? And of course, they looked at it within the workplace. So the two of them really started to form this particular model, and then Keith even expanded it further, and I've now taken the mantle and we're carrying forward that research. So we start by looking at those behaviors, and I say we start theirs because oftentimes when we're thinking about the relationships that we're forming, we're looking at the outward stuff that we see. And oftentimes I use like this whole like iceberg, you know, model or image, right? Like the behaviors are that tip of the iceberg, it's above the surface, we all see it. Great. Okay, so we can see it. Within model, we're looking at four core behaviors, and it's acceptance, openness, congruence, and reliability. What we have found with just those behaviors, if we wanted to, you know, four is a fairly easy number to remember, but if I want to break it down even more, we're looking at pretty much how we communicate and how we do so consistently, or how our actions are consistent. Those two things, when paired together, is what helps us begin to form trust and maintain it. So above the surface are those behaviors. Great, that explains some of the things that we might see in other people and might be able to see it in ourselves too. But what drives our behaviors? We've got our thoughts, our needs, our beliefs, our values, and our values really become the manifestation of many of our behaviors. So think of it in terms of maybe it's the beliefs that have been formed from our families, childhood, the groups that we belong to start to shape who we are. Right. And so as we look at those values, what we were curious about is if we've identified there are these four core behaviors, and certainly there are other behaviors that can form trust, but really trying to just distill it is like if I could bottom line it, what would be the four key things I'm looking for? Got those, but what's driving those behaviors? And after looking at like a whole series of values, that's where we identified two main values for each behavior. So with acceptance comes the value that you hold is around respect and recognition. Now, when I bring this into the workplace, oftentimes that word recognition, people are thinking like, oh, the the rewards, the we've got a recognition program. Like that's just a part of it. What we're really talking about is acknowledgement. Like, I respect you for who you are, I recognize that you have value, you have your own set of wisdom that you're bringing to this conversation, to the relationship. That's acceptance for openness. We're looking at disclosure and receptivity, meaning how basically, how am I being able or how able am I to like share information? Not just hoard it, not just like in this is so in the realm of coaching, it's also around how am I managing my emotions? How am I naming my emotions? How am I noticing maybe even emotions in other people, especially even like my clients, and how am I eliciting feedback? Am I open to receiving feedback? I don't know about you, but I run into some people who are wonderful at providing feedback, but they struggle receiving it, right? So that openness goes both ways.

Garry Schleifer:

Oh, good point. Good point.

Jenna Stoliker:

Think about it, right? When we get to congruence, we're looking at honesty and straightforwardness. So, do I hold this value like you know, what I say is what I'm going to do? I'm just gonna be very forthright with it. Now certainly you can feed back in a way that is straightforward, that sometimes can be very edgy and sometimes doesn't always land well. So we're looking at with straightforward.

Garry Schleifer:

I like it because that's me.

Jenna Stoliker:

Well, and sometimes this is just merely style and preference. But just to know that when we say straightforward, it doesn't mean it's carte blanche just to be like, hey, a thought was in my head and bam, it came out of my lips.

Garry Schleifer:

You're getting it, no filters.

Jenna Stoliker:

So, you know, what we are looking at. So, how do you not hold back? Where in in are your values in that? You say, Well, I might finesse my message a little bit, but I still need to deliver this. And I'm doing this again in service to this relationship and service to my client. So I've covered acceptance, openness, and congruence. Reliability is about the holding on to these values around keeping commitments and always striving for excellence. And I really see that, especially like in coaching. There's something I learned early on. It was like, are you living in excellence? Right, like if I'm coaching people around living their best life or being the best leader they can be, I need to look inward. How am I striving for that? How am I setting myself up to live in excellence in that way? So those are the values that support those behaviors within our framework.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah. That last one, the word integrity came up for me.

Jenna Stoliker:

Yeah.

Garry Schleifer:

Well, actually, in a few honesty and straightforwardness is integrity and disclosure, I guess. Yeah, I guess never mind. It's just there everywhere.

Jenna Stoliker:

Yeah, it is, it does, it gets woven throughout the entire model.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, right. Well, and thank you for matching each of these nuances with the core competencies from the International Coaching Federation. I really like that. I'm doing a lot of I'm working on AI coach Gary and I'm measuring it against the PCC marker. So I'm like really getting to know these babies a little bit too close, way more than I did before. It's a big exercise. And I don't know why this came up, but I thought I'd just say it. There's trust on websites, and so I took somebody's article and I said, Hey Chat GPT, here's the copy from my website, here's the article about trust in business. Tell me where I'm meeting or need to change the text, and it gave me some different concepts to consider as I was doing that, so it would increase the trust level between me and my clients that I don't know yet, right? So it's in inviting them in and having them feel comfortable without me being there. So just I don't know why that came up, but uh you know. There was a quote, I want to quote something that you said in here, and I know you believe this because you said it so many times. It's in your bio even, "Trust is curated daily through intention, awareness, and alignment with values. It is the sacred container in which transformation occurs, and because it's both relational and behavioral, it's something we can reflect on, grow in, and embody more fully."

Jenna Stoliker:

Yeah.

Garry Schleifer:

Well said. Thank you.

Jenna Stoliker:

Well, you're welcome.

Garry Schleifer:

And thank you again for the article and this conversation. And I'm just wondering what would you like our audience to do as a result of all of this wisdom?

Jenna Stoliker:

Oh my goodness. I would say well, one, I really would encourage them to take a look at the article and in particular the self-reflection questions. I think it's so important for us as coaches that we're always evolving and to be even, you know, always like kind of working on our own awareness and deepening our wisdom. Those are just some sample questions. Maybe it's questions I've already been looking at or or journaling about. But sometimes what I have found is I learned many years ago, like you learn from many different masters or you learn from many different teachers. So sometimes it is the way something is worded. Same stuff worded differently can really open doors. The other thing I would offer is if they're interested in the trust within model, check out my website, check out any of the blog posts. I've actually just relaunched and done a little bit of rebranding this year. So you could go to Jenna Stoliker.com and just find out me about me as a coach. But if you're interested in particular more about like trust and the trust within, I would just point people to consciousleadershipalliance.com. And that's the home base for all of this background on trust, the behaviors, our values. The research we've done. I have some of our research, I've got the psychometric reports from the surveys that we use to support teams and leaders and developing trust. Go check it out.

Garry Schleifer:

All that years of research and more to come. So jackpullicker.com and consciousleadershipalliance.com, correct?

Jenna Stoliker:

Correct. Correct.

Garry Schleifer:

And I'm sure we could reach you on LinkedIn if we really wanted to get on.

Jenna Stoliker:

Oh, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Always, yeah, connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm there fairly regularly.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah. I'm not so much, so just letting your list our listeners know. I'm in there maybe once a week. So email is best. And yes, it's easy to reach me, I know, because a lot of people do, and I really appreciate listening, talking to them. Thank you again, Jenna. It's been a great conversation. We could go on and on, obviously. And we've learned so much today as a result of your article and the. I have. Thank you.

Jenna Stoliker:

Well, thank you. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Garry Schleifer:

That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app, most likely the one that got you here. If you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine and you're watching this video, you can sign up for your free digital issue by scanning the QR code in the top right hand corner of our screen. Or if you're listening only, go to choice- Online.com and click the sign up now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.