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Episode 171: Joy As A Radical Practice with guest, Terrie Lupberger

• Garry Schleifer

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What if joy isn’t a mood you wait for but a stance you cultivate—especially when the world feels chaotic? Executive and team coach Terrie Lupberger joins us to unpack why joy can be a radical act that disrupts scarcity, separation, and fear in the coaching room and the boardroom. We explore a clear distinction between joy and happiness, how to avoid toxic positivity, and why holding paradox—grief alongside gratitude, urgency with steadiness—makes leaders more effective and coaches more trustworthy.

We go deep on the hidden narratives that shape work: the myth that there’s never enough, that we’re alone, and that worth depends on outcomes. Terrie offers accessible practices to reset your inner operating system, including micro moments of appreciation you can do in 15 seconds and “radical receiving” so praise and connection actually land in your body. We talk about curating inputs—news, feeds, and relationships—to protect attention, reduce reactivity, and widen choice. The result is a coaching presence that doesn’t collude with fear and a leadership style that strengthens trust, creativity, and meaningful action.

You’ll leave with practical ways to cultivate joy daily, support clients without bypassing pain, and anchor your heart while you move into the “din of battle.” If you’ve been chasing happiness or feeling drained by constant crisis, this conversation offers language, tools, and a path back to what matters. Listen, try a micro practice today, and tell us where joy is most accessible in your life. If this resonates, subscribe, share the episode with a colleague, and leave a quick review to help others find the show.

Watch the full interview by clicking here. 

Find the full article here.

Learn more about Terrie here.

Terrie's offer to our listeners: The first 10 people who email me with the subject line ‘Joy at Work’ at info@terrielupberger.com will receive a free copy of my new book Uncommon Wisdom at Work — I’ll pop it in the mail to you.

And for everyone who emails, I’ll also send my Joy Check-In Practice, a short guided reflection you can use daily to reconnect with your own steady flame of joy or offer it to your clients.   Your email is safe with me.  I don't share or spam you.

Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/



Garry Schleifer:

Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching where we're bringing you in-depth insights and features that you just won't find anywhere else. I'm Garry Schleifer, your host, and I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into the latest articles, have a chat with this brilliant author behind the one we're talking about today, and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. When you get a chance, join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques, and most importantly, make a real difference in our lives and our clients' lives. And I say that because when we talk with Terrie, you're gonna find out why. This is your go-to resource for all things coaching. Let's dive in.

Garry Schleifer:

In today's episode, I'm speaking with executive and team coach Terrie Lupberger, who is the author of an article in our latest issue, "Coaching to Unlock Joy". The article is entitled "Joy as a Radical Act: How to Cultivate It in Your Coaching". She holds an MCC and an ACTC. For 25 plus years, she's been a team coach and an executive coach. She's the author of the newly released book Over Her Left Shoulder, Uncommon Wisdom at Work. Described by her clients as a disruptor of the status quo, her life's work is about inviting people to loosen their grip on outdated norms, beliefs, and rules in order to discover what's truly possible. She works with business professionals to help them reset the default settings they work and live by, and is also a coach trainer in several programs around the world. Of course. Thank you so much for joining me today, Terrie.

Terrie Lupberger:

Thanks, Garry.

Garry Schleifer:

What are some of the schools again that you're coaching with, teaching?

Terrie Lupberger:

I coach for work with ITS in London, the Coach Partnership in Singapore. Pamela Richard and I have our own program called the Disruptive Change Maker. And there's oh, and Pyramid Resource.

Garry Schleifer:

Oh, with DJ Mitch.

Terrie Lupberger:

Yeah.

Garry Schleifer:

Oh, I think I will be interviewing her soon.

Terrie Lupberger:

Oh, good.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, yay. So, okay, you got to tell us about the book. It's hanging there, Uncommon Wisdom at Work. And how does that tie into what we're talking about today?

Terrie Lupberger:

So you know, we as a society have spent gazillions of dollars, not an exaggeration, on leadership training and leadership coach, like leadership development. And we still find ourselves kind of in the world we find ourselves in. And I've been on this mission, like, what's missing? What are we not paying attention to that if we paid attention to it, it might make a difference. And one of the things I uncovered is that, you know, we are at the effect of what I call the mother narratives, the collective narratives that human beings are living and working by. And most of us were not aware of how much influence they have over us, right? Like the whole scarcity myth that there's not enough, which has us then compete, that we should be afraid of each other, you know, which is the myth that we're not connected, which we are. And one of the myths that we live by is that happiness, our worth comes from external circumstances, right? And so joy, in my worldview, does not come because of external circumstances. Joy is a state of being that we can cultivate regardless of external circumstances, which then makes us a little more immune to the collective stories.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah.

Terrie Lupberger:

Does that make sense?

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, oh, very much. Like I'm thinking, you know, what are the societal norms that we just accept without question?

Terrie Lupberger:

Exactly.

Garry Schleifer:

And we always be asking the question so why do we do that again? It's yeah, it's interesting. Around the holiday season, I was asking family. I'm part of three families in a way, and what's the common things that they did on Christmas Eve as a family? And it's interesting because some of them just really didn't remember, didn't know, and others went back, for example, my mother went back to when she was a child in in Germany and told about a Jewish family in her neighborhood. So this was pre-war. And I was like, wow, just like that, you know. And I thought, you know, in my world, you picture it that there were no Jews by the time my mom was growing up, and that was actually not the case. It is very, you know, heartfelt to hear that they just, you know, it was a family in the neighborhood, right? Yeah. Were at their Christmas dinner table.

Terrie Lupberger:

Right. And somehow, you know, the story, which, you know, for me, story is like one of the most powerful forces in the universe because it's not so much about the facts, it's about the story we weave around them. And there's just layers and layers and layers of that we need to kind of unpack, reveal, see how they're impacting us.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah. Oh, well, my mom's 93, so the any stories that I get from her now are, you know, like their history way back.

Terrie Lupberger:

Oh, make sure you get them too. It's one of the regrets I have is I didn't get all the stories from my older relatives before they passed.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah. Well, and you'll never get all of them, and that's the way they remember them.

Terrie Lupberger:

Yes, true, very true. Very true.

Garry Schleifer:

Very true. Going back to the article about joy, you said that you believe that joy is such a radical stance in today's world. Tell us more why you believe that and how it affects given the crises and narratives we have going on right now.

Terrie Lupberger:

So for me, joy, I would say, is almost a defiant act because it disrupts those meta-narratives, the collective stories that would tell us we're not enough, we don't have enough, we should be afraid. If your neighbor doesn't look like you, then you know, if something's wrong, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera and so joy, and I do distinguish it from happiness, right? And this is my distinction, which is, you know, joy is ever present, ever available to us. It's kind of like a ground of being that's available to us as opposed to happiness, which comes from external circumstances. You know, I get the puppy, I get the promotion, I win the lottery, all those are great. And I'll feel the emotion of happiness. But for me, joy is kind of the underlying, ever-present way of being that's available that says it's okay and it's great.

Garry Schleifer:

Oh, and thank you for kicking us off with that distinction because that was one of the one of the big questions that came out of putting this issue together was what's the difference between joy and happiness? I'll also quote from your article a little bit more about joy. It shouldn't be confused with toxic positivity either. It's not forced optimism or pretending everything is fine when it isn't. Joy doesn't bypass difficulty, it acknowledges it while staying out of agreement with the fear that would keep us small.

Terrie Lupberger:

Yeah.

Garry Schleifer:

Brilliant. Thank you so much for that. Article is fabulous, our listeners. Make sure you get a chance to read it as well. Beyond the Page is, about what she was not able to put in her article and a little bit more that happened since she wrote the article. So I want to shift gears because we're talking a little bit externally, right? And in your article, you talked also about that joy starts at home. So tell us a little bit more about what coaches can do.

Terrie Lupberger:

Well, I insist that coaches tend to a serious inquiry about joy and how it exists in their life, right? Where they can access it and where they can't. Because if we and it would be absolutely understandable that, especially given these chaotic times, that we as coaches buy into the fear, you know, all the fear-mongering, that if we show up in that state, if we don't have joy available to us as coaches, I want to say we're gonna collude with our clients. And that's the worst thing that we can do is collude with our clients, right? So we have to tend to our own kind of foundation of joy. And like you said, it's not that I don't have grief and I don't have anger. I even have rage sometimes at what's going on. And paradoxically, I can hold that in the same space as joy, as knowing. One of my favorite movies was the Marigold Hotel about the older people that were in the Indian, you know, old folks' home. And one of the quotes, and I'm gonna get this wrong, is everything will be all right in the end. Yeah, and if it's not all right, it's not the end. And I love that quote. Joy's that fundamental knowing that, and the acknowledgement, we got to have this beautiful life, right? As hard as it is sometimes. So for me, the first thing that coaches have to do is do kind of a check on where am I able to access joy and where am I not able to access joy? What really grabs me or triggers me or makes it impossible for me to hold whatever emotion is surfacing and joy at the same time? So I would say that's really important.

Garry Schleifer:

Well, thank you. Well said, and it reminds me of that statement or the reminder that people say it's will you remember this in 10 minutes, 10 months, or 10 years?

Terrie Lupberger:

Yeah.

Garry Schleifer:

Goes along with the same Marigold Hotel concept. It's like you know, what's going on now? A lot of these things will not be in 10 years. There'll be new things, but there won't be those things. Right.

Terrie Lupberger:

And do I want to give up? Let's go with that for the next 10 years. Do I want to give up my joy? Right. Do I want to hand over my joy because of what's going on externally? And I acknowledge that's not easy and I do think if we practice and put attention there, we can cultivate it.

Garry Schleifer:

Right. Well, you also give us a little tip here, another quote. I keep quoting everything in your article. Everything's highlighted now because of everything I want to get in, but you said you may be experiencing devastation or anger at various world or personal events, but those feelings don't mean that joy isn't also available to you or that you should be passive or not take action consistent with what you most care about. So thank you.

Terrie Lupberger:

Yeah. Yes, because you know, going back to the I actually got accused of toxic positivity. I was at a conference in Singapore and one of the people in the audience came up and it was in response to a question I had answered and said, Isn't that like a little too positive? And so he went into, he was a therapist and he talked about toxic positivity. And I said, No, I said, I have all these emotions, right? The fear, the upset, the anger. And there are things that matter enough to me that I take action on them. And it doesn't deny that joy is still present, you know, and it's that paradoxical thinking that I do believe that we have trouble with. I think many of us, I won't say most, but many of us have trouble holding kind of opposing truths at the same time.

Garry Schleifer:

Right.

Terrie Lupberger:

Which is another skill coaches need to develop.

Garry Schleifer:

True, true, true. Well, and that that brings up a really good question that, you know, you got these two sides, the coaches and the clients. The coaches got their work, but like how do you put all this stuff you're talking about into practice? Like, you know, reflecting, journaling, supervising.

Terrie Lupberger:

Yeah, you know, there's so many ways to practice joy for ourselves as coaches, but then encourage our clients to do that too. One of my most favorite ones, it's called micro practicing.

Garry Schleifer:

Micro practicing. Okay.

Terrie Lupberger:

Yeah, you think of the word practice, and I actually wrote about it in my book, and people go, oh, practice. It's like, you know, memories of sitting at the piano when all the kids are playing outside and you don't want to do it, and it's a beautiful day, and you've got to practice the piano. So practice doesn't have a great connotation. So I'm like, okay, let's try micro practicing, right? And for me, this is something that I'm experimenting with right now, and it's really lovely. It's taking like 15 seconds to sit in the moment and appreciate. Just appreciate like where you're sitting in traffic, you're at a stoplight, and instead of, you know, what have I got to do and what's the grocery list and what do I have to do with the client later? You know, our minds are always going, is just to sit there and be with the traffic light and look around. And you know, I happen to live in a beautiful place, so the mountains are right there to look at. So it's that micro practicing of appreciation is really making a difference for me.

Garry Schleifer:

Micro practicing of moments of appreciation. Wow. I think I tend to do that too, but then somebody behind me honks because the lights turn.

Terrie Lupberger:

Yeah, exactly. Well, at least they're honking because you're appreciating and not because you're reading your phone while you're waiting.

Garry Schleifer:

I've made a practice now of putting my phone in the console so I can't touch it, and driving with two hands on the steering wheel, even if I don't have to.

Terrie Lupberger:

Yes, right, but you know, Garry, that's another practice is paying attention to who, I'll use that loosely, who you're hanging out with. Right, because it's easy, especially now, to be kind of wedded to our phones and the news feeds and even people in our lives that have really been caught by the fear and so it's really useful to pay attention to who am I hanging out with and what energy is that bringing? How do I pay attention to that?

Garry Schleifer:

Wow, that's so funny you should say that because we just had a reel to-do with a friend of ours who we've been hanging out with for years and then ended up in the hospital, and we thought we were power of attorney for care because we've known this guy for four or five years, and no one's ever visited him in the hospital for knee surgery or whatever he went in, and we found out we weren't and thought, you know, if you think that little of us, why should we be thinking so much of you? And that sounds selfish, but it's self-care too, because we weren't being appreciated, right? And we didn't do it for appreciation, but you know, it's that tough line, paradoxical, right?

Terrie Lupberger:

It's another paradox, right? I don't want to cut out all the people in my life that I may not have access to joy around. And at the same time, there are people that I want to cut out of my life because it doesn't serve. It's self-care. So it's paradoxical again.

Garry Schleifer:

Crazy, crazy. Well, the issue is about joy so I'm gonna bring us back to the comment that you made that you spoke about that you emphasize that joy must be cultivated, not assumed. So a little bit more practice here. What practices help coaches reconnect to their own joy as a being? Because to earn joy, you're saying we got to start here.

Terrie Lupberger:

Right. Well, so pay attention to where your attention is going. Right? Pay attention to where your attention is going. So, in those moments between clients, did you get back on your phone to read the latest, you know, piece of news that is intentionally designed to put us into fear? Right? So stop that.

Garry Schleifer:

Oh my goodness. You've been watching me because those are the things I've turned off. Yes, because they're not serving me. They're taking me away from momentary happiness, the distinction, and long-term joy. And my my situation more is others who keep coming up with this, Oh my god, did you see what happened today? And blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Did you fact check that? No, let me do it for you. Oh, untrue didn't happen.

Terrie Lupberger:

Right. Yeah. And here's another one that I really love. I call it radical receiving. Radical receiving which might seem another like another paradox, but it's when somebody appreciates you or compliments you. Many of us, you know, kind of have a little pinch about that and then we want to deflect it, right? Or oh, well, that wasn't anything. And can you physiologically, I want to say somatically, right, receive their acknowledgement? Right? I almost think of it as kind of filling your bucket because if you're deflecting, it's going to show up in your coaching, right? If you can't receive, then how are you gonna coach your clients to receive?

Garry Schleifer:

I like to say, especially when it's charity time in the year, usually around the holiday season, they but anytime. People are offered something and they go, Oh no, no, no, no, no, thank you, and all this sort of stuff. And I'm like, okay, so let's turn this around. So let's say you want to give to someone and they give you the same reaction. How would you feel? So when I put them in the other side of it, then they're like, Oh, and the other thing I've been doing a lot is teaching people how to stop and just say thank you and stop.

Terrie Lupberger:

And it is not an intellectual thank you but it's a can I really receive and hold this?

Garry Schleifer:

Right, like breathe it in, hold it in, and be aware and shut off all the other things you're thinking about, and just be aware of the thank you that you just received, that compliment, that whatever. Yeah, yeah. And like I say, it's not easy, so yeah, I think any portion of that is radical.

Terrie Lupberger:

But you know, that's why I love the distinction between happiness and joy, because many of us will chase happiness, right? We love it when we get the thing we thought we wanted. It's kind of temporary, but we love it when we get the thing we thought we wanted, which is great. But joy , it's like a slow burn, it's like a slow cultivation of being okay with everything as it is. One of my teachers, I don't know if you know who Aja Shanti but he has a a phrase, allow everything to be as it is, which is no resisting. And that's joy. And that doesn't mean that there may be things you care enough about that you want to take action on. So I'm not talking about putting your head in the sand.

Garry Schleifer:

It's about yeah, it's about allowing things to be what they are, just like in a way kind of radical

Terrie Lupberger:

Radical receiving, even of the stuff that we don't want. It is what it is. It is.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, we have a version of that in casual conversation, but it's not landing with the same impact as what you said. A lot of people say, Well, it is what it is, but that's acceptance. That's kind of like a deflection, like it is what I'm not liking it.

Terrie Lupberger:

It's disguised resignation.

Garry Schleifer:

Oh, there we go. Well said, disguised resignation.

Terrie Lupberger:

Disguised resignation, as opposed to no, it is, it is, and if I fight what's so, that's kind of like hitting my head against the brick wall. I accept, I do accept that what is in this moment is, and now what's possible.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, well, well said. Well, the whole article is fabulous. What would you like our audience to do as a result of the article amd this conversation?

Terrie Lupberger:

Go practice. Go cultivate it. Like I say, I do have compassion for all of us. It's a difficult time, and and that doesn't mean you can't cultivate and practice your own joy.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, it's almost, you know, and we go back to right at the beginning. It's almost like it's radical just to say joy it is in the world. It's like holding those two truths, it's crises and craziness, and okay, Terrie, it's always like that though, right? Like it's just heightened lately. Yeah, yeah, you know, and overemphasize. I think media has a lot to do with it to your point earlier. And my word of advice: turn off the media or go to a source that you can trust that's doing fact-checking and just take snippets just so you know what's going on, and your head isn't in the sand, and take a stand for something that you do.

Terrie Lupberger:

Exactly. Be in action, be in action around what you care about. And can you do that? There's a beautiful we could end with this. I wrote about it in the book. It's was one of the most memorable teaching moments I've ever had in my life. The short story is there's a gentleman named Father Tony DeMello, he passed in the 70s and he was a Jesuit and he was an amazing speaker, and he told a story about the Bhagavad Gita, and you know, the story of Arjuna and Krishna and the Bhagavad Gita. And um, so Krishna is going into battle, and he's got a fight against his family members who are on the other side, right? I mean, Arjuna's going into fight, not Krishna, Arjuna's going into fight, and so Krishna says, into the din of battle. So go take care of what you have to take care of, and keep your heart at the lotus feet of the Lord, divine, fill in the blank universe, whatever resonates for you. So go into battle. And can you do that keeping your heart full of peace and joy? I love that. Yeah, we don't practice that culturally.

Garry Schleifer:

Oh no, not at all. We're always in the heat of the moment, heat of the battle. We don't take the time to prepare for battle or to deal with battle, or to take care of our emotional self.

Terrie Lupberger:

Right.

Garry Schleifer:

Yeah, yeah, we do not do that well. We don't do himself. Terrie, absolute pleasure to have you. A reminder, Terrie's recent book, Uncommon Wisdom at Work, I'm sure available on all the usual channels like Amazon. Up in Canada, we say Go Chapters. Yay. After Indigo is our bookstore. What's the best way to reach you, Terrie, if someone wants to talk more or learn more?

Terrie Lupberger:

My website, TerrieLupberger.com. I don't need to spell that, right?

Garry Schleifer:

No, it's right there.

Terrie Lupberger:

Please.

Garry Schleifer:

It's right there. It's in the podcast, it's in the recording, it's in the transcript. It's everywhere. You're everywhere. Thank you for being everywhere.

Terrie Lupberger:

Thanks, Garry.

Garry Schleifer:

Thank you for spreading joy. Thank you for reminding us how and when and why to cultivate joy.

Terrie Lupberger:

Thank you.

Garry Schleifer:

Thank you so much, everyone, for listening to this Beyond the Page episode. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app, most likely the one that got you here in the first place. If you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine and you're watching this video, you can sign up for your free issue by scanning the QR code in the top right hand corner of our screen. If you're listening, you can go to choice- Online.com and click the sign up now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.