Episode 185: Breaking Learned Helplessness with guest, Jennifer Nielsen

A client says, “Nothing I do matters,” and suddenly the coaching work is no longer a checklist, it’s a turning point. We sit down with leadership coach and belonging advocate Jennifer Nielsen to unpack learned helplessness: how it develops, why it’s so common in today’s workplace, and what coaches and people leaders can do when motivation disappears and resignation takes over.

We explore the real-world forces that amplify helplessness right now, including workplace burnout, rolling layoffs, corporate restructuring, AI-driven job uncertainty, and systemic bias that can leave marginalized professionals feeling unseen. Jennifer shares the language patterns she listens for in coaching sessions, especially identity language that turns a setback into a self-definition, belief systems that sound like “truth,” and the subtle words and body cues that signal resignation.

From there, we get practical. We talk about building trust and safety so we don’t rush to fix, how to separate identity from patterns, and how to reframe without forcing positivity. Jennifer also walks through her five-stage approach to helping clients reclaim choice, with an emphasis on small, self-directed actions that generate new evidence and rebuild confidence over time. The goal is simple but powerful: shifting from “this is happening to me” to “I can choose how I respond.”

If you coach leaders, manage a team, or feel stuck yourself, you’ll leave with sharper listening skills, better questions, and a clearer path back to agency. Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with a colleague, and leave a review so more coaches can find it.

Watch the full interview by clicking here. 

Find the full article here.

Learn more about Jennifer here.

Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Background

Garry Schleifer 0:07

Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features that you won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer, and I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into this latest article, have a chat with this brilliant author, and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. When you get a chance, join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques, and make a real difference in our clients' lives, which we love to do. This is your go-to resource for all things coaching. But in the meantime, let's dive in.

Garry Schleifer 0:49

In today's episode, I'm speaking with leadership coach Jennifer Nielsen, who's the author of an article in our latest issue, The Power of Choice. The article is entitled Breaking the Cycle: Reclaiming Choice by Overcoming Learned Helplessness.

Garry Schleifer 1:05

A little bit about Jennifer, she's a leadership coach, belonging advocate, and owner of Nielsen Executive Coaching LLC. Since launching her practice in 2018, she's coached over 500 multicultural professionals, helping ambitious leaders break through mental and systemic barriers by embracing their strengths rather than changing who they are. She is the founder of Evolve by NEC Leadership Academy, a 12-week accelerator that helps busy professionals fast-track their careers with greater confidence and clarity. In 2026, she's expanding this work with the Evolve by NEC Leadership Pathway Hub and Community, a membership platform offering leadership pathways, microlearning, group coaching, and practical tools for leaders from new manager to executive. Before coaching, Jennifer was a senior leader at a global professional services firm, advising executives and leading diverse teams delivering complex solutions. Oh, and yes, she is a PCC certified coach just like me. She's a certified professional coactive coach just like me. And then it becomes different. She's a certified lead inclusive coach and a certified disc assessment coach. That is a lot. And welcome. Thank you so much for both writing for us and being here today for the podcast, Jennifer. So glad to have you.

Jennifer Nielsen 2:34

Thank you so much, Garry, for having me. And I'm really truly honored to be part of this issue and to be on the cChoice Podcast today.

Why Choice Feels Urgent Now

Garry Schleifer 2:41

Oh, our pleasure. Our pleasure. And thank you again for writing. But before we get into some of the nitty-gritty, because I do want our listeners to know more about this learned helplessness, what called you to write for this particular issue?

Jennifer Nielsen 2:55

Yeah, well, start to start off, there is just a lot going on in the world today. And many of us, and I can say that because I was doing a lot of reflecting in 2025 personally and both from experiences of my family, friends, and clients, that right now a lot of us are feeling a lot of overwhelm. So when I saw that this issue was going to be centered around choice, it immediately resonated with me. And I knew I wanted to write an article on this topic right away. And, you know, part of what's going on right now in this country, which is for me in America and around the world, we're just seeing, you know, through social media increased political divisiveness, social polarization. As a leadership coach, I'm also reading on the latest research around corporate equity barriers. And there's still continued systemic biases that exist, especially for marginalized groups. And that equity gap may further widen. Who knows? There's also continued workplace burnout and fatigue, and of course, lots of job uncertainty due to AI. So lots going on, and all of this, of course, can leave someone thinking and feeling as though life is happening to them rather than having some sort of agency. So the idea of choice felt incredibly grounding to me because choice is both a way of being and a way of doing. And in my article, I share the journey of a client who held a very deeply rooted belief in learned helplessness, which meant that he believed that no matter what he did or wants to do, that he could not achieve his goals. And he really struggled to motivate himself to try or make choices. So my hope in writing his story and my thoughts on the power of choice was to help others who are currently feeling stuck or helpless right now maybe inspired to reframe their circumstances and rediscover their own power of choice.

What Learned Helplessness Means

Garry Schleifer 5:06

Awesome. Well, and well said, because that's exactly it, a great example. I always love examples, by the way, case studies, that sort of thing. But before we get too far into it, for those listeners and viewers that have not read the article yet, what is learned helplessness?

Jennifer Nielsen 5:25

Yes. Okay, so first of all, I would say as coaches, right, we don't diagnose. And for full disclosure, this was not a diagnosis. My client's coaching goals were to find a new job and rebuild his confidence. However, as we partnered together, what the deeper experience he really wanted for himself was to regain momentum and believe again that he that the life that he wanted was possible and that he deserved it. So I was trying to name what he was experiencing. And in my research, I discovered in psychology the meaning of learned helplessness describes what happens when someone experiences repeated situations where their effort doesn't seem to influence the outcome, and then over time they stop trying. Okay, the second is beliefs, and I would call these more old beliefs now because they don't serve the client and moving forward. And the third thing the coaches can listen for is sounds of resignation. And that's what I was picking up on for my client. And um, I can happy to explain it if you would like, but how you could go about these three ways further, but in a nutshell, that's what learned helplessness is it's a psychological term, but this was an experience that I felt not was not just a grounded thought of my clients, but it was a held belief that he held for himself.

Three Signs Coaches Can Hear

Garry Schleifer 7:41

Wow. Well, you just helped us as coaches identify learned helplessness in coaching. Any other fine-tuning, like an example or two that you'd like to share of those that what will help us recognize is in our coaching sessions?

Jennifer Nielsen 7:57

Sure. So, first of all, the identity language, which is the first thing I said, it could sound something like this situation isn't working for me, to this is who I am. And that identity language is important and it does matter because once a client believes their identity is defined by, let's just say they're in their minds, past disappointments, taking further action can feel scary.

Garry Schleifer 8:25

Right.

Jennifer Nielsen 8:26

And so the coaching now shifts from closing skills gaps or asking powerful questions about next steps, like update your resume, for example, to now, right? We can't keep going when we hear this like nut stuckness that they really believe is true, um, to restoring the client's internal sense of personal powers, exploring what their beliefs are that sound like truth, like I mentioned, but they they aren't truths at all, and it doesn't serve them to move forward. And so that's the second thing to pay attention to in your coaching or when you're coaching someone is the beliefs systems, right? And what are beliefs? Beliefs are these thoughts that seem very factual and they're based on evidence, and the evidence can come from past experiences, it can come from messages you were told during your upbringing, the culture or society we live in and we think those are truths, but when you can change the evidence, you get to change that belief. And that's that's how one knows it's not grounded in objectivity. And for example, you asked for an I'm a first-generation Asian American. I was not born here in the US, so my parents are immigrant parents, and messaging that they gave me growing up here in America was that if, and this is very common for a lot of Asian Americans, is that if I work hard, keep my head down. My parents did the same thing. Work hard, keep your head down, don't ruffle feathers, you'll be recognized and rewarded. So, of course, I held on to that belief. And then when I went into my corporate world, that belief did not serve me really well. And so, what did I have to do? And the reason it didn't serve me well is because in the corporate system, the culture, corporate culture values being outspoken and advocating for yourself. So I had to change my evidence. I had to collect the evidence I was seeing around me in my in the workplace, and then talking to those who are great at advocating for themselves. And so I took on a new belief that I have to tell others about my hard work in order to be recognized. So beliefs sound so much like truths, but they're really not. And this is also why it matters to coaches, is because if we don't recognize the belief systems our clients are operating in, we'll do these things, we'll overmotivate, we could push too much positivity, we could be going into action or a to-do list too quickly, or we go into rescue mode as coaches. And I would tell you, I did all those things last year because I didn't take the time to like, oh, my clients are operating in this belief system that really doesn't serve them. And then the third thing to hear for is I mentioned is the resignation, either in their language, words, or embodiment. And those can sound like, I've tried that before, that won't work here. This is how it is, nothing changes in this company. So, so what I knew about my client, for example, is that it wasn't that he or any of my clients lacked ambition or talent. It was just like, you know, their nervous system had adapted to this unhelpful belief to conserve energy and environments, but that did feel pretty hopeless. Um, and so yeah, I just have so much opinions on this, right? Because corporate reality is also what my our clients are seeing and feeling right now. There's so much restructuring in companies, AI is reshaping roles, promotions are a lot slower, rolling layoffs are common practice, and many professionals, especially marginalized groups, still feel unseen. So I think as coaches, we're we're not here to dismiss their reality or um challenge their beliefs. What we want to do is help clients distinguish between what truly is outside of their control, let them know that maybe this is a belief they're holding on to, not the truth. And then where choice, even a sliver of choice, can exist for them. So, anyway, that's my long-winded answer to your question.

Building Agency With Trust And Presence

Garry Schleifer 12:46

It wasn't long-winded at all. It was perfect. And you know, Jennifer, one of the things that I was realizing while you were saying a lot of that was the number of clients that I had that I have right now that are saying things like you just said. So it's very valuable to hear that, as you know, when you hear from somebody else, then maybe it's a little more true. And it's not just my clients, it's everybody's clients. Jennifer, you alluded to some of the ways we can help them, but what other ways can we co-create that experience of agency and being in choice?

Jennifer Nielsen 13:20

It's a really great question. To bottom line it up front, I would say, you know, clients, clients can know they're in choice when as coaches, we can embody a coaching mindset that our clients are not stuck, even though they come to you saying they're feeling pretty stuck. We we really should sit in the space that our clients are resourceful. That's when we know that the choice is available to them and then also we have to cultivate, not have to, but when we cultivate trust and safety, the client may feel safe enough to tell us things like I feel defeated, you know, again, that identity language, I am helpless, or many times during the day I get angry at my circumstances. You know, these are things that can come up when we build that trust and safety. So my approach has been to just maintain presence so that we don't rush to fix and I consider coaching in a in a helping profession. And as helpers, it's at least for me, I have a natural tendency to want to help and fix, but we have to have that open mindset that our clients are resourceful. So, how can we help our clients then notice more like the obstacles that they put in their own way? You know, for example, if your client says something like, I didn't want to see anyone today, let's check in with that client, right? Check in and think about, ask them, what was that belief that preceded their withdrawal? What was maybe that emotion that preceded avoidance? And then what was the inner narrative or story they told themselves before they decided not to act? And and I observed that helplessness or stuckness is often protection from disappointment. And it's it's as humans, we can live with that dichotomy, right? We are comfortable in disappointment, but we hate disappointment at the same time. We want, we can do both at the same time, right? But once that becomes self-awareness for the client, then the client can see that these are really thought patterns, and we can we can build help them with that self-awareness without judgment.

Garry Schleifer 15:51

Yeah.

Jennifer Nielsen 15:51

And with the awareness creates that separation between identity and pattern. So it's not the I am helpless identity to I have been maybe operating from a helpless narrative. And that distinction can maybe it may be open dialogue on what choices they have.

Garry Schleifer 16:11

Yeah. Jennifer, thank you so much because throughout this conversation, I don't know if you noticed it, but you are touching on all of the tenets of coaching, being present, being where the client is reflecting what you're noticing, asking powerful questions, just you know, all the core competencies, that sort of thing. And from this place of learned helplessness. So just a different lens with the same tools as a coach. So thank you. That's just broken.

Jennifer Nielsen 16:46

Yes, and and this is before we even evoke anything, right?

Garry Schleifer 16:52

Yeah, well not before we hit the other path.

Jennifer Nielsen 16:56

I would love to be, I love observing masterful coaches that in 15 minutes we can get our clients to evoke and transform. But I do think there is some stickiness with when we we identify with the thoughts and beliefs that it doesn't it doesn't matter what we try, what is the use belief. And that could happen right now, because I mentioned all this overwhelm that's happening to us or and even the things I was naming earlier, maybe some some of your listeners are resonating, you know, like even as coaches, we we're wrestling with where AI sits for us, for example, and what choices if we choose choice as an option, do we want to proceed? So it is a, so we can't go straight to evoke. I feel like getting them just to identify and separate their thoughts is where I spent, you know, some of my time. And but once they are in choice, oh yeah, then the movement into action. We we can go go forward from there.

Five Stages Back Into Choice

Garry Schleifer 18:04

Well, let's talk about that. In your article, you outlined five stages of getting clients back into choice. How do you see those them unfolding?

Jennifer Nielsen 18:15

Okay, so with safety, as I mentioned, that safety with your client and um making sure there's clear clarity on what your role as a coach is with your client, we can shift then from insight. So now they've got the self-awareness. Okay, I don't have, I can choose not to be helpless, for example. Then we got to get them into these small, self-directed action. And I say small because I've tried the big action, and the client goes into that self-protection mode from disappointment fear of disappointment, and then they don't follow through. So I feel like it has to, and the self-direct directed is key too. But the stages I listed in my article, first of all, they're not trademarked, it's not a process flow or a framework. They're just suggested steps that I think any coach organically will go through with their client. So it's not meant to be sequentially done or anything like that.

Garry Schleifer 19:20

Oh, just like coaching, nothing's nothing sequential.

Jennifer Nielsen 19:25

Okay, good. I just wanted to make sure it's not trademarked by me.

Garry Schleifer 19:27

I just hear an opportunity, trademark it, quick. No.

Jennifer Nielsen 19:31

I'm sure it exists and named somewhere else. But first of all, the first thing that I feel is important when working with a client who feels very stuck or help or in that helpless mindset is naming the pattern or naming their ex what you're hearing, or maybe asking further, checking in on any belief systems that they're operating under that just aren't helpful or limiting, limiting beliefs is a common word. Um, the second step after that would be to reframe. But the key here to reframing, and this is all from my um lessons learned, right, from working with clients, it's not it doesn't happen this perfectly but the it can't be forced positivity. I think sometimes we think reframing means and changing your self-talk. So instead of that negative bias we have as human beings, we just change it to positive self-talk, which is great. And I do think that helps for a lot of people, but we can't force that reframing as forced positivity.

Garry Schleifer 20:41

Would you say reframing is also the same as mirroring or reflecting back?

Jennifer Nielsen 20:47

We could I would say that's in between recognizing the pattern. So we mirror what we heard or observed, and then we can get the client to say, is there any other ways of thinking of their situation?

Garry Schleifer 21:00

Oh, got it.

Jennifer Nielsen 21:01

As a reframe. So it's more just questioning, for me, what helped my clients was around the permanence of their beliefs or their actions in the past. What is this really does this have to be permanent? And does this have to be so pervasive in your life? Does it have to be this all-consuming feelings or thoughts? And again, as I noticed, that helplessness is really just again protection from further hurt, yeah, of course, or disappointment. Yeah. The client, even though the client may feel hurt, there's still comfort in that certainty. It's so it's so comfortable.

Garry Schleifer 21:47

Yeah.

Jennifer Nielsen 21:47

But then we don't want it, right? Back to that dichotomy.

Garry Schleifer 21:50

You know, you remind me of the story of the jumping bean, right? And it's in a jar and there's a lid, and the jumping bean jump, jump, jump, hits the lid, hits the lid. So it learns not to hit the lid. Then somebody takes the lid off and they don't know that they can now jump higher. So we're the coach that's taking the lid off and inviting this creature, this thing, this fictional character, to leap, jump, move. And there's trepidation, of course, because they hurt their heads up until we got rid of the lid.

Jennifer Nielsen 22:22

So once they've realized the lid is open, the action can happen. The action can happen.

Garry Schleifer 22:31

And but we don't want to force it, like you said. And in your article, you said taking small, deliberate steps.

Jennifer Nielsen 22:38

Yes, yes. And also self-generated. So the action has to come from the client's own thinking. We could guide the client to think about what are the obstacles that get in the way of them not taking the action. So really the steps could be mitigating or removing those obstacles that they put that solid wall they put on their road to getting to their goals. But the key here, it has to come from the client because if it comes from the coach, we've taken that choice and power away. Um, and then we don't we reinforce helplessness when we really want to and reinforce that they can't choose.

Garry Schleifer 23:21

Oh, yeah. Well, if we're offering it, then how can they get it?

Jennifer Nielsen 23:25

I do all of those things. We can say things like, hey, do you want to do a prioritization list, for example? Let's put together a list of things that you want that are important. That's already taken that away from the client because we want to help. That at the end of the day, as coaches, we do want the best for our clients, but they have to be owners of that.

Garry Schleifer 23:50

Yeah, we have to step back from that wanting to help and just be the help.

Jennifer Nielsen 23:54

Yes, yes. And I do think, you know, once they start seeing small steps and actions as safe, not scary, of course, that momentum leads to momentum because small, and we all know that small wins accumulate, but they accumulate new evidence in our brains, right? And that new evidence will hopefully over time, with enough, you know, small wins, we'll rewrite those beliefs. And then we realize, okay, those old beliefs were not truths and they don't have to be. And then then we lead to empowerment of the client, and they're able to just realize that they do have some influence over their trajectory, and then there's a shift from separating identity and detaching ourselves from the results and outcomes with the goal of that they can love themselves again and just know that they tried their best each day.

Garry Schleifer 24:50

And they'll lead with a new belief.

Jennifer Nielsen 24:52

They'll lead with a new belief with new evidence, with new evidence.

Garry Schleifer 24:56

Exactly.

Jennifer Nielsen 24:56

And some of that takes it won't happen every single time. It could be another failure or two. And then we go back to the world.

Garry Schleifer 25:04

Oh, well, of course, and we'll be there.

Jennifer Nielsen 25:06

Nothing is how yes, nothing is linear in this world.

Garry Schleifer 25:10

Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

Jennifer Nielsen 25:12

Yeah, but the power of choice is like once the client sees it's right there, available to them at any time.

Garry Schleifer 25:19

I thought you were gonna sing for a second. I can't like an angel, like an angel.

Jennifer Nielsen 25:24

I will not do me either.

Key Takeaway And Two Reflections

Garry Schleifer 25:27

It is probably a sound of aha and uh right, yeah, exactly, but more like angelic, more from the heavens, right? That that's what I'm picturing coming out of this is that that possibility. Jennifer, if you could leave coaches with one key takeaway about the power of choice, what would it be?

Jennifer Nielsen 25:45

I would say when, you know, as when and not just coaches uh and not just clients, but people, human beings in general, when they feel powerless or hopeless, there is a tendency to see life as something happening to them. To them, right, to them. This is happening to me. But when they can reconnect with choice, the focus shifts, the focus shifts. They start to think how can I respond to my environment. So it's really of shifting from this is happening to me to uh with choice I can respond.

Garry Schleifer 26:27

Yeah.

Jennifer Nielsen 26:28

So as coaches or those listening or even people leaders, coaching direct reports, our role, and maybe this is the main takeaway, is our role isn't to fix others' mindsets or to be the hero. We're we don't have to be the hero. Instead, I invite our listeners to reflect on these two questions. The first question is where might helplessness be showing up in your clients right now? It it could show up in stalled goals, maybe some disengagement language. And then the second question is where might it be showing up in yourself? For me as a coach, you know, I I work for myself. So I can see if I'm paying attention, I can see helplessness even creeping up in my marketing. It can be creeping up in my learning, in my business growth, in my relationships. And that's the truth. It's none of us is immune to these beliefs of helplessness. We're all human, we're all human, and but choice though, then restores that sense of personal power and control.

Garry Schleifer 27:39

No kidding.

Jennifer Nielsen 27:40

Because if you're procrastinating right now, we have to pay attention to why are we procrastinating? Is there a belief that it doesn't matter? Or maybe we decide I don't enjoy this anymore.

Garry Schleifer 27:53

That could be a helplessness, it could be because then you dig a little deeper, right? It's like, oh, what's behind that? What's behind that? Yeah, exactly.

Jennifer Nielsen 28:02

And then when we remember, regain our power, we have that power within ourselves to be in choice. It could restore that momentum and back to those small little actions that lead to wins. And I feel like momentum builds hope, and then hope fuels sustainable growth. So, my offer again is the next time a client says, There's nothing I can do, you know, there maybe that's a time to just pause, trust the partnership you have with the other person, stay present, and then just ask the that might help your client see that there's always a choice left. There's always one choice left. You always have the power, always have the power, and maybe that's enough to keep them going again or starting. You know, it's not even going, it's just starting.

Garry Schleifer 28:54

Yeah.

Jennifer Nielsen 28:54

Starting.

Garry Schleifer 28:55

Well, that's kind of why we call the magazine choice, was because that's kind of the outcome you want for your clients, right?

Jennifer Nielsen 29:02

Yes, absolutely.

Contact Details And Closing

Garry Schleifer 29:04

Oh, Jennifer, thank you for those tips and tricks. I definitely have a bit more to my lens for my upcoming coaching clients, like I mentioned earlier. Um, anything else you'd like our audience to do as a result of the article in this conversation?

Jennifer Nielsen 29:19

Um, I think you're gonna leave in the show notes how to contact me and everything.

Garry Schleifer 29:26

What is the best way to contact you?

Jennifer Nielsen 29:28

LinkedIn. So I'm hanging out lately more on LinkedIn . And I would just say again, just when we hear those signs of resignation or disengagement, just to pause and trust the partnership. And as we know, what of course clients come in is not always what their actual goals are. But when we hear that sign of resolve, lack of resolve, just to be present and really have them reflect on like what is the belief or identity or words that are not helpful to them.

Garry Schleifer 30:10

So that's we'll dig deep and we'll find it. Thank you. Well, they've given us some great ideas on what to watch for. So thank you again for writing for us. Feel free to write again. And for sure, thank you for being on this Beyond the Page episode. Really appreciate you sharing your wisdom today.

Jennifer Nielsen 30:30

All right. Well, thank you so much. It's been such an honor to be here. And you're right, this was very very fun. So thank you.

Garry Schleifer 30:37

I told her in the green room, it's just gonna be fun. You're gonna say it. Maybe I set the stage. Thanks again. That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app, most likely the one that got you here, or choice-online.com/ podcasts. If you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine and you're watching this video, you can sign up for your free digital issue by scanning the QR code in the top right hand corner where it says scan me. If you're in listen only mode and you're now uh parked your car or done whatever off the treadmill, you can go to choice- online.com and click the sign up now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.