Episode 189: A Framework For Choice with guest, Jenn Chloupek

The fastest way to change a coaching conversation isn’t a new tool it’s helping someone see they have options. I’m joined by executive coach, educator, and author Jenn Chloupek  to talk about the power of choice and the ABC framework she built to make transformation feel clear, human, and repeatable: Awareness, Behaviors, Connections. If you coach leaders, build a coaching culture, or simply want better conversations, this one gives you a practical structure you can use immediately. 

We dig into what “awareness” really means beyond surface insight: identity, purpose, strengths, blind spots, and the internal driver that quietly runs your day. Jen explains how that driver can be both your superpower and your kryptonite, and why stress often shows up when we act like we don’t have a choice. From there, we move into behavior change the small shifts in how we listen, speak, decide, and lead that turn insight into momentum. 

Jenn shares a powerful real-world story from a global program with women engineers, where participants named internal barriers and then watched those barriers dissolve through structured reflection and empowered choice. We also separate courage from confidence, and explore what it looks like to “do it scared” in leadership and in business. Along the way, you’ll hear one of Jenn’s favorite coaching questions, why ABC aligns well with ICF core competencies, and how connection becomes the real outcome of the work. 

If you enjoyed this conversation, subscribe, share it with a coach or leader who needs it, and leave a review so more people can find Beyond the Page.

Watch the full interview by clicking here. 

Find the full article here.

Learn more about Jenn here.

If you are interested in the ABC Coaching Framework, please email Jenn at jenn@chloupekconsultingservices.com and she will send it to you. 

Grab your free issue of choice Magazine here - https://choice-online.com/

Transcript

Welcome And Meet Jen Klopek

Garry Schleifer 0:07

Welcome to Beyond the Page, the official podcast of choice, the magazine of professional coaching, where we bring you amazing insights and in-depth features you just won't find anywhere else. I'm your host, Garry Schleifer, and as you can tell, I'm excited to expand your learning as we dive into this latest article, have a chat with this brilliant author, and behind it, and uncover the learnings that are transforming the coaching world. When you have a chance, join our vibrant community of coaching professionals as we explore groundbreaking ideas, share expert tips and techniques, and make a real difference in our clients' lives. This is your go-to resource for all things coaching. But in the meantime, let's dive in. In today's episode, I'm speaking with executive Jenn Chloupek, who is the author of an article in our latest issue, The Power of Choice. Her article is entitled A Framework for Choice: Coaching Through the ABCs of Empowering Conversations. I'm looking forward to that. A little bit about Jenn. She holds an MED, and she's also recently a PCC, a professional certified coach, as she told me. Welcome to the club, by the way, as I am too. She's an executive coach, educator, and author, and founder of Chloupek Consulting Services and the ABC Coaching and Leadership Academy, of course, following the model. She empowers leaders and coaches through her proprietary ABC methodology. And for those of you who haven't read the article yet, it stands for awareness, behaviors, and connections. More coming. Hold on. And it blends neuroscience, emotional intelligence, and practical tools for transformation. Jen partners with global organizations, including Toyota Tsusho, I hope I got that right, Dakin, Stanley Black and Decker, AEG, OC VIBE, and federal agencies to cultivate high-impact leaders and coaching cultures. Known for her insight, authenticity, and transformational approach, Jenn helps individuals and teams unlock potential, lead with purpose, and create lasting impact. I think we tried to do the same thing. Thanks so much for joining me today, Jenn.

Jenn Chloupek 2:18

Thank you so much, Garry. That's probably why we're like kindred spirits. Whenever we get together, it was fun just riffing in the green room with you before all of this. So thanks for having me on today.

Garry Schleifer 2:28

Yeah, we met a hundred years ago, as they say in the coaching world, at a Sherman event in Cincinnati. So it's been a while. Good to see you again, and thank you for writing for choice.

Jenn Chloupek 2:40

Well, thank you. As always, it's wonderful and a pleasure to see you too. It's fun to see this come full circle. I wrote for choice a hundred years ago. And I was schooled in a different coach coaching methodology. So coming full circle and now getting accredited through the ICF coaching federation. I had a lot of unlearning to do. A lot of unlearning.

Garry Schleifer 3:03

Oh, I'm sure you caught on really well and what inspired you to write it for us again at this time?

Jenn Chloupek 3:10

Well, I saw the call for well, first I subscribed to your magazine because I think it's the only magazine in the industry that really is for coaches. And being a lifelong learner and an educator, I rejoined. I joined for a while and then let my subscription laps and realize, hey, this was really good getting these nuggets every month. And then what I love about you is you partner with subscribers and there's a call for action. If you want to write for the magazine, you open that up to anyone and everyone who would like to be featured if they have an article that's deemed worthy in the series of what you are doing. And I like how it's based on series too, like trust and joy, and now choice.

Garry Schleifer 3:57

Yes, and coming soon, chaos, which we all know about that. Well, thank you very much for coming back to choice and the reminder to our viewers and listeners that we are always looking for writers. You will stand a high chance of being published if you write to the theme of the particular issue. Go to choice-online.com/write-for-us/. But enough about that. You can find out that later.

How The ABC Framework Was Born

Garry Schleifer 4:25

Tell us more about what you do, what's this ABC? Come on, dig deep.

Jenn Chloupek 4:31

All right. I'm gonna dig deep with you and go there for a minute. It's not rocket science, it was really something that came out of, I do a lot of quiet time and and meditation. And I was sitting in my chair, my lazy boy chair, if you will, and drinking a cup of coffee. And I thought, hey, I really want a framework that would help coaches and help myself and help the company that I was just beginning. And I really literally sat there. I didn't hear an audible voice. It wasn't woo-woo-wee like that, but I did hear a little silent voice that said, Hey Jenn, you're a former elementary school teacher, you're an educator. Keep it simple with your clients, A, B, C. And I thought, oh my goodness. And this was before Chat GBT and all the things. So this really was an authentic framework. And then I thought, hey, A is really where it starts, and that is awareness when I'm partnering with clients or when I'm leading workshops. It's the opportunity to hit the pause button to gain that awareness. And what I mean by that is who are we? What is our identity? What is our purpose? What are our strengths? What are our weaknesses? I've written another book called How to ID Your Internal Driver. And I think your internal driver is your continual operating system behind what's going on. And I help people identify what that internal driver is. So that's part of awareness. Right. And then we shift into be behaviors based off of that awareness and that choice.

Garry Schleifer 5:58

Yeah.

Jenn Chloupek 5:59

You want to lean into any new behaviors that you're learning about yourself and then see really ultimately I'm about connections. We're doing all of this awareness, all of this behavior work so we can have connections with ourselves and meaningful connections with other people.

Garry Schleifer 6:15

Wow. And come on, you got to tell us a quick story of some success using

A Global Case Study With Engineers

Garry Schleifer 6:20

ABC.

Jenn Chloupek 6:20

Oh my goodness. Can I just tell you? I'm beaming because I just came off of, I just got back. I was in San Antonio this past week with 60 women engineers from a company. I don't know if I can say the company's name right now. I will, I'll ask for forgiveness. TE Connectivity. And I love that they even had connectivity in their name. I was there. They also wanted to bring it out globally. So I had a co-facilitator, Michelle Jack. She went to Shanghai. So simultaneously, I'm in San Antonio teaching these women engineers. Michelle is over in Shanghai, and then we're going to Germany in April to bring it out globally. And it was based on the ABC framework. And so, even the biggest thing, and I'm still getting kind of emotional over here. One of the women from Shanghai said, I came in here thinking I had these internal barriers and learning the ABCs, I no longer have these barriers.

Garry Schleifer 7:22

Oh.

Jenn Chloupek 7:23

That's pretty powerful, Garry. Like when you see the ripple and the change, and so I'm a proud mama over here, just and these women, they were un unbelievable and just remarkable.

Garry Schleifer 7:37

Yeah. And women engineers on top of that. Like, they aren't already saddled by being a minority. They have their own internal issues.

Jenn Chloupek 7:46

100%. And that was a lot of the conversation. Sometimes they were the only sitting at the table, and just having that awareness now. You still have a choice to speak your voice and what ideas do you want to share, and what brilliance do you want to share with the group? And I gotta chuckle a little bit, Garry. Like I'm looking at their business cards or connecting with them on LinkedIn and the positions you would think of engineering positions, mechanical engineer, chemical engineer, product engineer, but there was even an AI software engineer. And so who would have even thought that was a job or a field of study?

Garry Schleifer 8:24

Five years ago.

Jenn Chloupek 8:25

Exactly. Yeah.

Garry Schleifer 8:26

Well, oh, I am a lot of times I work with cloud architects, not engineers necessarily, but and like cloud wasn't a term we even had other than the sky about 20 years ago, right? It's all exactly it's all cool.

Jenn Chloupek 8:40

And you're really, I mean, I know this is about this framework, but you're really exploring that space right now with AI, and you have your own coaching bot.

Garry Schleifer 8:51

He's on hold right now because the company I work with is doing some back end work with coming back and full force, and I'm really enjoying learning about it. So um, yeah.

Why Choice Creates Personal Agency

Garry Schleifer 9:03

Jen, in your article, because I want to reference the article so everybody goes who reads choice, you talk about the power of choice in coaching. Why is helping clients recognize they have a choice such a transformational moment?

Jenn Chloupek 9:17

That's a great question, Garry. And it really gives the client personal agency. Coming in to work with a coach, my old mindset used to be hey, I know what you need, I know what we're gonna do, and I know exactly what tools and resources I'm going to give to you. Now, fast forward, the new model that I approach is the client. We're partnering with the client because the client is fully whole and the client knows really at the end of the day what's up there in their brain. And it's just asking those powerful coaching questions to show them that they do have a choice. And so I think stress comes from the power that we give away to not having a choice. And so when we reveal those options or we help explore those options with a client, it gives them agency and also it helps the coach not have attachments to the outcome. Because again, I used to doing a lot of unlearning have a lot of attachments to what I wanted for the client, and that was way too much ownership on my part.

Garry Schleifer 10:22

Yeah. Wow, no kidding. And speak a little bit more about the what have you seen as the transformation? Like what was the visceral visual? I don't even know how to describe the impact.

Jenn Chloupek 10:38

It's almost tears, you know, when they really realize that they have a choice and that they have either been limiting themselves because of their own beliefs, or they have discovered what their internal driver is, such as to make an impact or be the best or do things perfectly. Once they discover that transformation and see that that internal driver can be both their superpower, but could it can also be their kryptonite, then they go back and audit their day, their life, and they say, Oh my goodness, I know why I've been showing up in a certain way. And from this moment forward, I'm gonna choose to show up a little differently because now I have that agency and I can see the 30,000-foot view.

Garry Schleifer 11:23

Yeah. Well, no kidding. Yeah, such clarity. And you know, I'm learning that a lot about choice from our other articles that have been written in the interviews. I want to quote something else that you said and ask you for a bit more connection on this

Courage Versus Confidence In Decisions

Garry Schleifer 11:40

one. Choice isn't really about decision making, it's about the consciousness, courage, and connection behind it.

Jenn Chloupek 11:50

Yes, and that word, I love that you chose that quote to share. Courage is huge right now. I think we get it confused with confidence a lot. So people will come in and say, Oh, I don't have the confidence. And I'm like, hey, I ask them a question, is this really about confidence? Or is this, you know, could this be courage? And nine times out of ten, it comes back to courage. I do have the confidence, I have a confidence to ride a bike, or I have the confidence to go out and climb a mountain. So they have confidence, it's just the courage to step into something that might be new. And so when we're making a decision, and Garry, I struggle with this. I have a ABC ICF accredited school.

Garry Schleifer 12:37

Oh congratulations.

Jenn Chloupek 12:39

Thank you, thank you. And so I had to have the courage. I had the confidence. We rolled this out at Toyota, and Toyota was my group that we pioneered this with for the ICF accreditation. You need five people, and Toyota interviewed 17 different coaching schools and said, Hey, Jenn, we want to partner with you. So that was a really humbling moment. And so I had the confidence to do that. Now transform that. And I'm pretending I'm the client. Just recently, I've been struggling with now I'm gonna do an open enrollment. What if no one comes? What if no one signs up? What if no one and so all these decisions kind of went through my mind, and I finally stepped into current, and we've got a waiting list now for the open enrollment. But if I wouldn't have had the courage and made the decision to go ahead and not just partner safe spaces with clients that I have, but do this as an open enrollment, it's all like you said, about about choice and about me having that awareness. And we talk about this in the article. I use myself as a coaching client a lot, having that awareness, shifting my behaviors. I had to do it scared in order for C to lead to connections.

Using ABC With ICF Competencies

Garry Schleifer 13:53

Wow.

Jenn Chloupek 13:53

I hope I answered that.

Garry Schleifer 13:55

Well, more, yes, and uh-huh. I want to remind our uh listeners that you put some, and I love this, thank you, key takeaways for coaches, four points. Start with awareness, facilitate behavioral shifts, foster connection, and model empowered choice. Because there's always the power of choice. I've said that for years. It's so crazy that I finally did an issue on choice. But anyway, anything else you like to add in that for coaches to learn more about ABC or like how much of it can they use without stepping on your toes?

Jenn Chloupek 14:36

I mean, yeah, no, it's a model, it's a framework. And so go ahead and use ABC. It's really it's good for even if you map the ICF competencies, they all map up into A, B, or C. And so even using the ABC framework when you're engaging with a client, really, that coaching agreement is gaining awareness over the focus and the outcome for the coaching session. And that is a choice. And then the B, the behaviors, is evoking awareness to what the behaviors may not be working for you and giving them a choice all throughout. Like one of the most powerful coaching questions, I think, for coaches with your clients, and it's so simple, but where do you want to go from here? Your client has just laid out a bunch of ideas and information, but to get to throw it over, not to make any assumptions and just say, okay, what do we want to do with all of this? Yeah, and that's that awareness, and then that gives the coach a way in which to show up. Because even though there are ABCs for your client, there are ABCs for the coaches too. And we haven't even talked about that, and that's not in the article per se, but I do teach and educate on this a lot, and even in my coaching school is hey, as a coach, we need to have awareness over what we bring to the table, and we need to have awareness over our behaviors, our listening behaviors, how we ask powerful coaching questions. And as coaches, we need to be connected to ourselves.

Garry Schleifer 16:07

That's brilliant. You had me at you overlaid it with the ICF core competencies and then just added the buttercream frosting on it for me. That is brilliant. In a in a way, setting us the coach up for success in life and in training and in marketing and everything. Because like you said, you're an example, use it on yourself, and that's what gave you the courage to go ahead.

Jenn Chloupek 16:38

I did. I'm coming off camera for a second, Garry, but you might appreciate this being an educator.

Garry Schleifer 16:43

There we go.

Jenn Chloupek 16:44

There we go. It's a whole blueprint of the ABCs for the coach and the ABCs for the client, and then the foundation is the core competencies at the bottom.

Garry Schleifer 16:55

That's brilliant. So for those that are in listen-only mode, Jen just held up a beautiful model. What would you call it?

Jenn Chloupek 17:03

A blueprint.

Garry Schleifer 17:04

A blueprint. It was blue and it was print on it. On one side, on the left side was the the client coach, and on the right side was the client. I love it. Well done, Ms. Educator.

Jenn Chloupek 17:16

Well, thank you. Education is my passion and trying to break things down to simplify things. Again, we're a global organization, and English isn't everyone's first language, and so a lot of these concepts are translatable and transferable to different regions and cultures as well.

Garry Schleifer 17:36

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, my first language wasn't English. Born in Canada, and my first language was German. German because my parents didn't speak English, so I the only language around the house was German until I went to school.

Jenn Chloupek 17:49

I don't think I knew that about you, Garry.

Garry Schleifer 17:51

Yeah, see, you gotta stick around, and you did. You went away and you came back. You're forgiven.

Jenn Chloupek 17:56

I'm forgiven, exactly. Thank you. It's fun to be back. In fact, I met one of the and she's involved with choice Magazine. I went to the ICF Engage conference in San Diego, and I think her name is Cheryl. Is it Cheryl Proctor?

Garry Schleifer 18:12

Cheryl Proctor Rogers, yeah.

Jenn Chloupek 18:13

Yes, so we were talking about you.

Garry Schleifer 18:16

She is my co-lead for the upcoming chaos issue.

Jenn Chloupek 18:20

Oh, awesome. I love Cheryl and her energy, and she had mentioned doing some work with choice. I'm like, oh my goodness. Oh, hold on.

Garry Schleifer 18:28

No, Laura Berman Fortgang, who is also there, was the is the chaos, and Cheryl is the presence issue.

Jenn Chloupek 18:35

Okay.

Garry Schleifer 18:35

Yeah. So yeah, stick around. Stick around. You might be called on to be a co-lead on something.

Jenn Chloupek 18:41

I would love to be a co-lead with you. I love giving back. That's part of where I am now. And my season in life is just that give back. And you would ask, hey, can coaches use this and and and take a liberty to use it? And you know, teachers bake, borrow, and steal. And so being a former educator, I learned from the best as well. And use and integrate into practices. So if it fits for a listener, go ahead and use it. If it doesn't fit, it's like clothes. You take it off and you discard.

Garry Schleifer 19:10

And there's nine billion people on the planet. And wouldn't it be great if they all had the ABCs?

Jenn Chloupek 19:15

That would be so cool.

Celebrate Wins And Ways To Engage

Garry Schleifer 19:18

Jen, what would you like our audience to do as a result of the article in the conversation? Obviously, use the model. What else?

Jenn Chloupek 19:24

Use the model, yes. And always thinking about it for themselves as well. Like coaching mindsets huge. Even I love what we did before we even started. I'm gonna pull the curtain back for the audience. We both put our feet on the ground, we inhale deeply. And so remember, this could be a framework for you as well. I mean, I'm also going to be shameless here and say if anyone wants to learn more about the framework, we do offer our open enrollment. So if you go to our parent company is Clopec Consultant Services, so that is our website, and there's a tab that says ICF ABC Accreditation. So we have upcoming open enrollments. We're currently holding them in the Phoenix, Arizona region. And so it's fun in Phoenix, Arizona. So if anyone wants to come, if you're listening and you have never if you thought about getting your level one, we are just a level one accredited school at this point, hoping to be level two accredited.

Garry Schleifer 20:25

Jen, there's nothing just about it. It's a heavy lift, I've been told.

Jenn Chloupek 20:31

It's a it is a heavy lift, it's a lot. It's it's a year and a half, two years in the process. And I'm glad I did it. You know, I kicked and screamed a little bit, but you know, you just mentioned something, Garry, and you asked, like, what do I want the listeners to do as a result of that? I want us all just to celebrate. I don't think we celebrate enough as human beings. We're just off to the next thing. And I'm just reminding myself right now, just coming off of these last couple of weeks, doing some global things just to celebrate. And I'm gonna celebrate, I'm gonna celebrate choice. I just think that was amazing that that's the name of your coaching magazine. I never really asked you what was the impetus of choice, but I do know now being an ICF accredited coach, choice is the biggest gift we can give to a client. And so thank you for that.

Garry Schleifer 21:18

Oh, you're welcome. Yeah, it was 24 years in the making to get this issue because it never dawned on me. And yes, I was newly minted coach, and I was looking for a magazine and couldn't find one. And my husband turned to me and said, Well, you're an entrepreneur, start one. So I did, much to the chagrin of every publisher out there who's listening. We did it our way. And here we are 24 years later, still serving as the only print and digital unbiased globally distributed publication.

Jenn Chloupek 21:50

Wow.

Garry Schleifer 21:50

That's a multiple, but it's one multiple I'm proud of.

Jenn Chloupek 21:53

And I love what you do and just the groups that you work with as well. And yes, so

Garry Schleifer 22:00

And the brilliant authors like you.

Jenn Chloupek 22:01

Well, thank you. Thank you. It's great. I'm definitely going to look and see. I don't know if it's too late. Like, let's tell our listeners, listen to me, let's tell our listeners, is it too late to rate rate for chaos or what is the next call for action?

Garry Schleifer 22:15

The best thing to do is just go to the website at the bottom of the editorial calendar, choice-online.com, and it'll tell you. And if you have any doubts, just contact me. I answer. I'm not that AI literate. I do answer my own emails, and I'm more than happy to meet with authors for coffee to just brainstorm like what's in your mind. And I always love to say, take what's in your head and write it from your heart. And then add in some practical aspects, and we're all good. And you'll end up like Jen in the hot seat, and it's not seat.

Jenn Chloupek 22:51

No, and Garry's so easy to work with, and choice has been awesome to work with over the years as well. You do make it easy for us. I remember it being pretty daunting, and I thought it was again. That was the story I was writing in my head, which was not the true story. So it's been awesome working with your team.

Books Resources Contact And Closing

Jenn Chloupek 23:09

Also, a I have a couple of books based on the ABC framework as well. So there's an ABC playbook for leadership success. I wanted to make coaching accessible for all. You know, coaching can be very pricey and expensive. And so I wanted to level and democratize like coaching to say, hey, even if you're a new leader and you don't have the money to pay for coaching, this book would help you with awareness. And I have it broken into awareness, some basic leadership behaviors, and then see connections. And then the other book would be really the ABC playbook for how to ID your internal driver and why that matters. And so, just like you, I did things my own way, not the um big publishers, but worked with a smaller publisher to publish those books. Yeah, and one is very similar to Simon Sinek's book, but I will say that I published my book prior to, but I didn't have Simon and Schulster as my publisher.

Garry Schleifer 24:06

Right.

Jenn Chloupek 24:07

Yeah, Simon had Simon, which was good.

Garry Schleifer 24:10

No, that's great. And they can find that on your website as well.

Jenn Chloupek 24:14

They can, yes, they could find that on the website as well. They could, or it's on Amazon. And so if you put in Jenn Chloupek and ABC, something's going to come up.

Garry Schleifer 24:25

Okay. Yes. What's the best way to reach you, Jenn?

Jenn Chloupek 24:28

Probably email, and I don't mind giving that out. I do, like you said, I respond to everyone's email. I give away tools and resources for free. My internal drivers to prove my worth. And so I prove my worth by showing up and giving out resources. So that's Jenn.Chloupek@Chloupekconsultingservices.com . But if you Google that as well, you get to my website, and then the email is there as well. So that's the best way, or to connect with me on LinkedIn. I've really been using LinkedIn and leveraging that a bit as well. So I'd love for to connect with uh with the audience. Uh, if you would like to connect with me on LinkedIn, it's another place.

Garry Schleifer 25:18

Awesome. That's great. Thank you so much. Very generous, very giving, just like you said. Let's let the world know.

Jenn Chloupek 25:28

Thank you.

Garry Schleifer 25:28

Thank you so much for joining us for this Beyond the Page episode, Jenn.

Jenn Chloupek 25:32

Thank you so much for having me on. I'm looking forward to being on future podcasts.

Garry Schleifer 25:37

You're welcome. That's it for this episode of Beyond the Page. For more episodes, subscribe via your favorite podcast app, most likely the one that got you here. If you're not a subscriber to choice Magazine and you're watching this video, you can sign up for your free digital issue by scanning the QR code in the top right hand corner of my screen. If you're in listen only mode and you're done driving or you're off the treadmill, go to choice- online.com and click the sign up now button. I'm Garry Schleifer. Enjoy the journey of mastery.