choice Magazine
choice Magazine
Episode #11 ~ Curiosity, Vision, Experimentation, Connection: Helping teams and groups thrive in periods of disruption with guest, Jennifer Britton
In this interview, we talk with Jennifer Britton about her article Curiosity, Vision, Experimentation, Connection: Helping teams and groups thrive in periods of disruption.
Jennifer feels that "helping teams and groups thrive through periods of disruption has become an important part of our role as coaches in helping people continue to thrive in the workspace. "
Jennifer Britton is a team and group coaching specialist and founder of Potentials Realized. She is the author of six books including her latest, Reconnecting Workspaces and co-host of the Remote Pathways podcast. She is known for her highly interactive approaches to virtual conversations. Jennifer’s work has been awarded the Prism Award for Excellence in Coaching.
Watch the full interview by clicking here.
Visit Jennifer's website: https://www.potentialsrealized.com/
I'm garish Schleifer. And this is beyond the page, brought to you by choice the magazine of professional coaching, the ultimate resource for professional coaches in this wonderful arena of professional coaching. We're more than a magazine choice is a community for people who use coaching in their work or personal lives. We've been building a strong, passionate following in the coaching industry for more than 20 years. Can you believe it? 20 in today's episode, I have the awesome pleasure of talking with the coach consultant leader, trainer, wonderful person, Jennifer Bri, or as I know her Jen, about her article in, uh, the recent issue of choice magazine disruption. Yeah. Oh, go ahead, Jen, show yours too. There we go. Matching, uh, yes. And, uh, her article, which she just showed you, there was, uh, entitled curiosity, vision, experimentation connection, helping teams and groups thrive in periods of disruption. So Jennifer Britain has a whole bunch of, uh, accolades and educational, uh, appendages. So congratulations on all that. Uh, of course she's a certified coach. Same as I am the PCC. Uh, she's a team and group group coaching specialist and founder of potentials realized she's the author of six books,
Speaker 2:Actually seven books. Now
Speaker 1:I knew it was coming
Speaker 2:Seven now, including
Speaker 1:Her latest reconnecting workspaces. She's also the co-host of a podcast, uh, called remote pathways. She's known for her highly interactive approaches to virtual conversations, which you'll see today. Um, Jen's work has been all awarded the prism award for excellence in coaching. Jen, welcome. Thanks so much for joining me today.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, Gary. Always, it's always great to some time with you. And first of all, congrats on 20 years.
Speaker 1:I know. Right?
Speaker 2:Amazing. And I remember meeting Gary like 18 years ago when I stepped into this profession going, wow, I wanna be like him one day. So, But yeah, I'm serious. I think there was probably some impetus to all my right when I, when I heard you speak one day at an ICF Toronto chapter meeting, I was like, oh, that's really interesting. So it's quite neat to be able to sit down with you today, virtually
Speaker 1:Virtually. I know. And isn't it perfect that the conversation is about teams and groups thriving in this virtual disrupted world. Um, but I do wanna say you, you are, um, I, I know we're acknowledging each other here, but I Tru truly have to say you are a leader in your field. So, um, you went off and, um, you're just a go-to person for team and group coaching. And now for this new arena, uh, you know, like your wor work, like your book, sorry, reconnecting workspaces. So I'm looking forward to hearing more, that's the purpose of the beyond the page, uh, podcast. So what made you write this article?
Speaker 2:What made me write this article? Well, I, number of things, including my passion, um, you know, as we've seen in the last 18 months, so we're recording this in fall of 2021, you know, as the pandemic has, uh, continued to play out around the world, we're really seeing the need for people to come together. Um, people are hungry for connection. And as we look at the changes, which are needed and the changes, which are playing out around the world, you know, often it is not the individual person who is making those change. They're doing it in the context of groups and communities, teams, and organizations. And so when you had this disruption article, uh, or series come up, I was like, oh, I'd love to write for is on a number of levels first, you know, for us as the coaching community, in terms of how do we help support groups and teams thrive through this continued change and some would, would call it continued disruption. Um, but two, because it also links me back to my former world of work. And, you know, and others may know that I spent, you know, almost 15 years working in a global sector in the international humanitarian world. Um, often on the other side of disaster post-disaster management support, where really, as we looked at rebuilding economies, as we looked at rebuilding communities and even nations, it wasn't the individual who created the change. It was teams and groups and communities who did that. And that's how I came into coaching. Right? This is like where I met you almost 20 years ago, as you know, a person who had just left as a leader, a manager with an UN system, uh, you know, wondering will I make it work as I come back to Canada, there was a big question mark there. Um, and knowing though that, you know, to really continue to affect change in the world, which has been part of my vision, um, that it would, that would somehow deal with groups and teams. So here I am, 2021, you know, group, well team coaching especially has really just, this is a year for team coaching, uh, the release of the new ICF team coaching competencies earlier this year. So many team coaches are out in the world practicing and having a lot of requests because people want, wanna be together now, moving forward.
Speaker 1:Well, no kidding. And how tough it's been to, to, and I'm really glad that in the article you talked about connection, um, you wrote that connection is the glue that helps people thrive. So what can be done to connect, to build those connections in workplaces?
Speaker 2:Yeah, such a great question. You know, and again, we tip on it a little bit. This is my whole latest body of work, which is the reconnecting workspaces series. So reconnecting workspaces came out in June, followed just a few weeks ago by the 90 day guide. And so, you know, what we've heard throughout the pandemic is, you know, we're better together. Well, how do you connect people for virtually physically or in the hybrid space? Cuz really connection is the glue. And what I loved about the way you've positioned my article, you know, it does go into those six layers of connection. How do we connect people to each other, to the, the topics that are important to us, to, um, you know, the platforms that we're, that we're using and they need to use and all their interesting ups and downs. So connection truly is the glue, right? We, we thrive when we have results and relationships and in terms of having relationships, we need to have connection. We need to know who we are. We need to understand what's important. We need to also understand what inside our window or in the backdrop of our zoom rooms. So I see I've hit a nerve there. Right. And
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, big time.
Speaker 2:We've, we've met people who we, we don't know what their world looks like beyond the two by three inches on their screen. Yeah. So, um, again,
Speaker 1:I, I have people working for me who I never met. In fact if they walked up to me on the street, I wouldn't know because I, and I used to think that was kind of, you know, just the way my business was. And now, you know, 20, 21, as you, as we say, it's like that little square is all we know about those people and okay, let's admit it, the dogs, the cats, the chill, the backgrounds, the fake backgrounds, the bad backgrounds, the bad hair.
Speaker 2:Of course, of course. And you know, as I pulled together, reconnecting workspaces, I, I had hired an illustrator a couple years ago. This was a book that's been in process for many years, but you know, as he pulled together, this girl, great image of like, what has the virtual world looked like? You know, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, like the knots, the tens, the 20, like 20. And what do you think? You know, that image of the 19 20 20 is, you know, the kid running through the parents, you know, workspace.
Speaker 1:I know they're even commercials about the mother trying to connect to get on a zoom call and has to go from room to room, to room during lockdown, uh, with, you know, they've really played it up. So, but that was our, that wasn't is our reality. Like, will it
Speaker 2:Stay well? That's, that's the interesting thing, right? Because everyone's at a different space right now. And I think this has been part of the, the reason why connection is so important because we don't know what's happening in people's background. You know, our closest neighbor can in the us, right. It's a different experience than throughout this pandemic. Yeah. Uh, even, you know, neighbors next door in our own local communities might be having a very different pandemic experience as well. So we need each other, we need each other to really continue to thrive on so many levels. And, and that's where, you know, I, I think even going forward as with any sort of disaster, it's, it's never over. It's like, it's not like you for like a switch it's, you know, things stop. And then there's time that follows months, even years of like rebuilding and reimagining. And I think as coaches, this is where we come in, really helping people reimagine and take stock of what's happened, acknowledge that, learn from it, but also think about where we now and where do we wanna go in a continued human evolution.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I know it's just the, the inability or the, well, not inability. Well, I guess it was inability to, to hug somebody. Yeah. You know, like my mother lived two hours away, but I couldn't a couldn't visit, but we did connect via zoom. So that was helpful. So that was kind of the temporary hold until we could actually go mask to mask and then finally hug hug.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And you know, again, still families across borders who can't and haven't seen each other. Right. Yeah. It's uh, yeah. It's, it's, it's challenging and that's again, connectivity. Yeah. Connectivity on lots of different levels. So important.
Speaker 1:Tell us a little bit more about what we can practically do to boost connection across those six layers. Like they're well, let's, you know what let's let's just, so for those of you listening, it might not have read the article. Let me read off the six connect to the topic, connection to you, connection to others on the call, connection to the content connection to the platform and connection to your context. And when we speak of you in majority of these cases, they're you as the facilitator. So, um, but it could also be as a participant. So Jen, that's a lot of stuff, layers. What's your favorite? What's one thing that you've seen work really well.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well again, let's put it in the context of coach. So as we look to connect people with your context, there are lots of different ways we can be doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I'm gonna pause here.
Speaker 2:Did we break?
Speaker 1:We break. So go back to, let's put it in the context of coaching. So I'm just gonna make a note about that. We need to cut out this part. Um, I don't even know what minute so nine something, but um, yeah. Okay. So rewind, let's put in the context of coaching go.
Speaker 2:So let's put it in the context of coaching. So as we look at layers of connection, let's imagine this is a team, a team that is distributed around the world, or even a country, even a province or state, we wanna help people understand what's happening in their world. So what is that context? What are their priorities? What is really urgent in this moment? And we're gonna therefore use a platform. So yes, we can use zoom, but a lot of people don't know how to use zoom and all its bells and whistles, right? So you using annotation to bring voices into the room. Are you allowing people to co-create on the screen using whiteboards? Are we using images, especially if we're a team that has multiple first languages. And again, this takes me back to my roots, leading global teams and very much, you know, it is that that can connection those relationships that help us thrive through periods of disruption, back to this addition, you know, what do people need? People need to feel confident. They need to feel connected. And in disruption when there is so much uncertainty, sometimes the only certainty is the people on your team. Right. And this was my phone. Oh
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right. Like this is a layer, good point. I think we often don't think about, but if we're a coach, how are we helping people unpack within this like massive chaos or complexity? What are the things that you are sure of? And sometimes it is these connected relationships that we can lean into. I know you've got my back or I have your back on this and often that's enough to keep us moving until this next sort of part of the path shows up. It's almost like fog, right. When you're driving through fog. Is it better when you have a navigator with you?
Speaker 1:Sometimes? Yeah. Sometimes. So,
Speaker 2:So I like to use that analogy cuz in disruption, I think for many of us we've, we've felt like we've been driving through the fog often in a vehicle by ourselves or on a road by ourselves. Well, what if we can pull someone else in? And that's where, when we are say team coaching, we're helping a team understand, you know, how are you connected to others? What can you rely on? Um, because we don't have to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Uh, you know, and it that's, it just dawned on me that it's like, it doesn't matter that the world has been disrupted it's it does matter that it has, and that we're doing this, but in a sense, it doesn't matter because this is important under all circumstances to be connected, but more so because we're driving in the fog of this. And I guess in disruption is that the cessation of, uh, certainty in a way. So like you said, just to circle back, it's about, well, I've got your back, you've got mine. We you're still connected. So using what few MOS we have to hold it gather almost sounds like, right? Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. What refocuses
Speaker 2:Do we have? Right. And if you look at like, you know, collaboration, why do people collaborate? Because you have more accessible. Right. That's what true collaboration is. You can bring this and I can bring this. It's like goes back to the Flint and the fire, right. It's like, I have a piece of wood and you have a, a stone and that's gonna help us create a fire together. But we can't do that. And it's in its most baseline form. Yeah. And I, I do believe, and I've seen this throughout my entire career. Right. It's in times of challenge that we have the option to Rob up and we often need to do that with others. Right. We can do it a little bit on our own, but if we come together, then there's just so much more, many more mores. So, you know, it's, it's like a lot is possible. So much more is
Speaker 1:Possible. Oh, so much more. I, and I know like you brought up collaboration, that's one of my strongest suits. Like, please don't leave me in isolation. I mean, doing a podcast, brilliant. It's like, oh, I get to pick your brain. I learn something, you know, we shore each other up. We, you know, we, we help promote each other and help other people and all that sort of stuff. But magazine is epitome of a, a collaborative work. Right. Bringing it all together, having it make sense. And yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's the heart back to your question earlier, like why write on teams and groups? Right? Because they are the unit, they are the unit of collaboration. It is not just an individual it's, you know, helping groups and teams thrive, whether we have a purpose and we're a team or whether we're just journeying along and we come together for this shared interest for a little while and then head off on our own paths.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Speaking of heading off into another path, I have to ask you this, cuz it was driving me crazy when I was rereading the article, how performance goals and results are structured without the, to see people in action, a shift to a more results based approach has been embraced by remote teams. When did we stop being results based? Are corporations always been known for that? Like what,
Speaker 2:No. You know, it's interesting. And, and if we look at the pandemic, right. I like to think everything's on swing. Right. Okay. It's not to say that we were, were not results based, but one of the things that's been up for heated debate in this last 18 months of the pandemic is, has there been almost like an over shift to super productivity. Right. And so, in fact, if you think about your own work as a coach, maybe in your own business, what did you notice about the real results? The workflow, the work time, the boundaries, or lack of boundaries in your work? So one of the shifts that we've really seen because people aren't in a remote team, you're not seeing each other. So we need to get even more granular on what does success look like? What are you doing now? How do I know that? You know, even if, if I'm working at five, 5:00 AM in Toronto and you're picking up my work at 8:00 AM, you need to know what I've been working on. We've gotta be a lot more results granular than we were before. And so that's what I mean by, you know, results have really come into focus. Many organizations have always had KPIs or key performance leaders, but a lot have now embraced what, at least when I was a younger leader, we used to call MBO management by objective. And that was, you know, all my years as a leader, we were managing by smart goals. It had to be very specific and measurable. You know, if I was in Barbados and you were in, uh, you know, Taiwan, like we would have to really get into very specific elements cuz we were working across time zones, language, culture, cetera. And so it's been interesting. The OKRs have surfaced OKRs, standing for objectives and key result else. A lot of that comes out of the tech sector in the startup world. That OKRs are yet another way to be very specific around what are objectives and key results. What are we aiming for? And back to coaching, it ties in nicely to our PCC markers, right? Client, what do you wanna look at today in our conversation? What will success look like? And what's important about this topic for you? So again, I think just wanted to spotlight that in this article because when we are separated virtual and or hybrid, I do wanna frame this as a hybrid reality too. It's so critical. We really get better at communicating. Are we doing and seeing how it connects in with others? So I love the graphic that you chose yeah. For this article, because very much it is about, you know, understanding how am I connected? Maybe not just to one person, but like some of these individuals there's 5, 6, 7 connection points. And we have to keep that in mind. We don't see it, but we need to be aware of
Speaker 1:It. Yeah. It's, it's funny what, what this part of the conversation brought up for me is when, um, managers, you know, when you said hybrid workplace, it must have driven managers and, and those kind of people crazy not to see their people working. Right. So you're in a remote workspace they're working. So all they can depend upon is to see results pop up, like with success, towards the results. You can't actually see people working. Not that they were always being productive, but at least it looked like they were. So now, you know, you, you bring up a whole, whole different conversation about, uh, about, uh, boundaries and, and uh, overwork. Overperform the whole craziness
Speaker 2:And leadership, right? There's been a leadership paradigm shift and it's interesting, you know, having, so I always led hybrid or remote teams and three decades always led this way, right? Like you can do whatever you wanna do, but at the end of the day, we need these results. And you know, when I came back to Canada 18 years ago, that wasn't a very common way to lead. And so it's like, I think people have realized it's, it's a different leadership paradigm in the remote space. We have to really empower our teams, our individuals on the teams. This is where coaching comes in, right? You cannot, uh, micromanage or well, a lot of people will try to micromanage in the remote and that's not been very successful. We can micro monitor. And I shared this back in my 2013 book from one to many best practices for group and team coaching. So as team coaches, as group coaches, we're really looking at how do we build that team capability? And it means for the leader often that they need to step into this new paradigm of letting go of all the control of really stepping back and empowering their team. If that's the word you wanna use, but really activating the team to do their best work. And we can only do our best work if we understand what am I aiming towards? What do I need to do? What's expected of me. That's a different conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Wow. Sounds so clear when you say it's like, what, why wasn't that always a conversation, but,
Speaker 2:Well, it wasn't always a conversation, right? It was for some of us, but we weren't a popular voice. So that is a whole other layer. Right?
Speaker 1:Cause doing this magazine, I've only in 20 years, I've only known remote workspace and it's about the result. So you gotta here's the magazine has to get out by here, work backwards, 96 steps to getting a magazine out by, you know, group of people and you know, and there are prerequisites hinging on others. So yeah. So speaking of taking a step back, a question I should have asked like right from the beginning is so what may made you spotlight curiosity, experimentation vision. And obviously we know why connection.
Speaker 2:Yes. So, uh, it goes back, it goes back a few years actually to writing a K plan due track. My fourth and fifth book Kept doing research for this book. So in 2018 I came out with the work planner, four virtual remote professionals called plan do track, right. Three steps. And in that was doing a lot of research around what helps teams and individuals thrive in complexity. Mm. And so a lot of these skill sets started bubbling up curiosity, vision experimentation, and connection of course is the one that I always like to throw in the mix. So with curiosity, we've gotta be curious, right. We don't know what's coming down the pipeline. Right. And certainly in disruption, that's the mindset. And, and to us as coaches, that's at the heart of coaching, right? We adopt this curious, curious mindset set vision is something, uh, as a coach, you know, probably one of the first things we learned to coach around years ago when we start our coach training and certainly tying it to leadership and teamwork, what do we know about great leaders in times of disruption, they work with people to co-create a vision. Vision is the horizon vision becomes the horizon. And we can all think about what's happened in our own worlds in these last 18 months. But think about how vision helped you continue to look ahead and not look to that immediate foreground, which if we look to the immediate foreground and change, it's almost like getting whiplash, right? It's like we're looking too much, but looking straight up to vision, it helps us to really like keep an eye on the horizon. So I think vision is certainly something we wanna be revisiting on a regular basis and co-creating a vision should not be, you know, top down, hopefully we're going grassroots bottom up. And of course that speaks to my former world and career and graduate work, which was all about Grasso its development. You know, how do we really empower communities and nations? Finally, we've got experiment, right? If we're not experimenting on a regular basis, chances are, we're getting way too far down the path. Right. And, and pre pandemic, we were really looking to leaders like Steve jobs, right in the, what was he so great at at experimentation, right. He always to have a saying about, you know, you can only connect things in the rear view mirror. That's a really bad paraphrase. No, it's like we, we need to get out and experiment, try things out, learn from it. And that's that rapid iteration that, you know, so is so embodied today in the world of agile and agile approaches. So that's the roots for these four areas. And I, I really, you know, look back at some of this writing of mine 2018. And as we move through the pandemic, these are four touchstones that are so critical. And in fact, at my podcast, remote pathways, we've been using some of them, not all of them and as quarterly anchor points. So as we through the year, it becomes an anchor point like experimentation reflection is another one. So that's the history
Speaker 1:And you, what I love is that your work you've consistently followed your heart, your work with the UN, uh, may major disruption. So you were, uh, you're a disruption pioneer in a sense, right. You know, Steve jobs and you, right. So right in there. And, uh, and what I really love is that, that, that everything just keeps building and building and you're so in touch with what's going on. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 2:It's, you know, it's choice too, right back to the name of your, your publication. It's, it's about choosing our path and, and hopefully that's what we do as coaches. We help others really get clearer on what's important to them. Right. I was so lucky, you know, years before I even heard of coaching, I had amazing mentors who helped me by asking the question, Jen, you know, like what is the impact you wanna make in the world? And that was from my age of 17, um, you know, this, this whole touchstone of disruption as we call it today, I've think stems back to one of my grad supervisor, my grad supervisors, early, early 1990s. And as I embarked on my first global assignment in central America at the young age of what was I like 21, 22. Oh
Speaker 1:Wow. She had,
Speaker 2:She, I, I so looked up to her. She was, you know, a woman in her, like probably forties, but she had worked in this after the Nicaragua revolution in doing like literacy and social justice advocacy work. And I asked her, you know, I said, I'm going on this assignment to work, you know, within other communities. And I said, what do I need to know? And she's like, Jen, just embrace the chaos, embrace the chaos.
Speaker 1:Wow. Even then
Speaker 2:Has the mantra I have lived and thought about every day as a professional, whether I wore my former hat as a leader or now as a coach. And we've, we've seen it playing out. So, you know, we all have our own story. We, we only see it, remember connecting it backwards.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So embrace the chaos. I love that. Cause you know, and, and to my coach learning, I that's, one of the things I remember is, um, is, you know, when we used to start off as coaches and we were like, okay, give, send the client, the prep form and have,'em send it within 24 hours. And, you know, there was so much more work we used to do when we were in training. Um, I, I ask them to, but they don't. But the, the point is I, it was always, I was never expected that that would ultimately be what we would talk about. And I always used to say in my head, it's like, well, I'm, I, I open the door to chaos, so I have no idea what they're gonna bring in. And I'm, and I'm ready. Yes. Right. I'm grounded. I'm ready it on. Yes. So in coaching, so I've always done that. Um, wow. Some certainly some great wisdom, you know, as with our articles, we like to ask you as the author to give our coaches something to do, what else would you like our audience to take from this article and conversation, and actually apply in their Ooh coaching, first of all, and then their lives.
Speaker 2:Wow. That's a big one with an article like disruption.
Speaker 1:I know. Right. So lets get, let's take it easy on our listeners and our coaches
Speaker 2:Question. Well, you know, and I think I, I tried to write this as well through, um, a practitioner's lens. Yeah,
Speaker 1:You did very well. The
Speaker 2:Things it can be really leaning into. So if you're a team coach, how do we help teams have better meetings? Right. That's their often their container of conversation. So in disruption, you know, is there a way that they can be more curious, they can be creating their visions, experimenting and connecting with each other. So I really think these four touchstones can be things that we're working with our clients on and by default it's things that are coach readers can be experimenting, quote, unquote more with. Cause I think, you know, they're good reminders or at the heart of what we do every day, but do we step back and ask ourselves as coaches? Like, you know, how am I being curious? Am I stepping in and feeling like I know, or am I ready to embrace the chaos? Which means anything can happen today. And I, as you said, I'm, I'm good with it. Or I at least round it for it. It's not, I'm good with it, but it's like, we collectively are going to make it good because we're together. Um, so that's a bit of a reframe. So I think very practically, you know, read through the article. I talk a little bit about team meetings, uh, touch on a little bit around collaboration. So really be thinking also your collaborative opportunities as a coach. And I think this is an area back to team, team coaching, especially, you know, co-coaching is such an important piece of the coach success, right. As
Speaker 1:Well. Yeah. I I'm looking at it too at the article and it's, I, I would add to that, just pick one of the six and go play with it.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Right? Yes. Each time, uh, you know, you usually have more than one group or group or team coaching session. So, and as a leader, I know a lot of leaders read this because they're coaching is a tool in their toolbox start using it in your meetings, you know, but don't, don't bite. Don't try to eat the whole elephant all at once. Um, and just, you know, one, one bite at a time. And I guess I should reframe that cuz that's not fair to elephant. So I don't know watermelon or you know, eat the apple one bite at a time. There we go. Um, thank you so much for joining us. Jen, you fountain of wisdom is always and passionate, loving, caring, curious, experimenter, collaborator and author. Oh my gosh. Seven books, um, for our audience it's listening and uh, what is the best way to reach you and where can they find your podcast?
Speaker 2:Ooh, great question. So given that I operate in many different spaces, right? That my main company is potentials realize, but most of you will find me under group coaching, essentials.ca the podcast is called remote pathways. You can find it on any of the great podcast players, Spotify, apple, or the website, remote pathways.com with my writing, of course, Amazon is always the best conduit. So look at Jennifer J Britain, my professional writing name, and you'll find all the books and there will be more because the remote, uh, the reconnecting workspaces series, uh, comes out of the remote pathways podcast and there will be ultimately in the next decade, 12 books in the series.
Speaker 1:Wow. So it's
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:JK, Rollings, look out.
Speaker 2:You never know, you never know it
Speaker 1:All laid out, all laid out.
Speaker 2:It's in the hybrid world. Right?
Speaker 1:So yeah. Well, and I wanna reminder, uh, advise our listeners that, um, Jen is collaborating with me on an upcoming issue of choice and uh, we're doing a great job already and it looks like it's gonna be another amazing issue. So thank you for your or contribution to us and to the coaching world.
Speaker 2:My pleasure and Gary, you know, that I always enjoy spending time with you. It hasn't been enough.
Speaker 1:I know
Speaker 2:Lockdown, but I look forward to the day. I get to see you again in person, give you a hug, Our colleagues at, at conferences.
Speaker 1:I know, right
Speaker 2:Until we get back together in physical community with our colleagues all over the world. So thank you for this, uh, you know, work of art, you know, conversations are needed. And I look forward to dialing into your podcast, listening on my walks. Yes. And wanna thank everyone for spending a bit of time today. Hope it's inspired. You hope it's got you thinking a little bit of a different way. Yeah. Um, or maybe even more clearly about the work you do
Speaker 1:Already. Yeah. Well, I have, um, that's it for this episode of beyond the page, please sign up to our email list@choiceonline.com to find pre previous episodes or subscribe to your favorite podcast app, just like with Jen, so that you don't miss any of our informative episodes. And if you're interested in getting a free issue of choice, because you're not yet a subscriber, uh, same place choice, online.com and click the signup now button I'm Gary Schleifer enjoy the journey to mastery.